Author Topic: Best advice for newcomers?  (Read 22835 times)

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2013, 11:46:56 AM »
Everyone can't be the same. Especially when it comes to tuppers, the process just is very unique to everyone. And the rules do say state your opinions so I'd say you're not really breaking any rules you should worry about. Having opposing viewpoints only makes for interesting conversations and I appreciate that.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 12:12:28 PM »
Again, not really breaking rules you should worry about. Unless you treat people that actually have rights in the eyes of others badly, then you'd be in trouble. But even then, someone probably would agree with what you did. Buuut getting off topic here.

intelhunter

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Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 03:48:56 PM »
I would tell mib_????? to sod off, because we are full. However, I lie to him and tell him it cant be done.

If it was someone IRL I would help them of course. I would tell them to keep it a secret.
Anyone who disagrees are dumb. I am correct hence you are wrong.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 05:59:15 PM »
I mean the ethical rules; the code of conduct many people seem to comform to.

Which is also what they hide behind whenever they have no reasoning to their school of thought. "Why wouldn't I do this?" "Because it's just wrong man!!"

Nothing is "just wrong" and everything social depends on the situation. This includes the relationship between a tulpa and a host. Even if a host makes a tulpa only for sex, if they are really sapient and dislike their existence, the sheer attention the host would give them while living out their fantasies would eventually leave them parallel enough to be able to resist whatever the host wants to do. And tulpas that aren't very independent seem to agree with their host often, so in the early stages of sentience, it probably wouldn't hurt them too much.

Either way; your head, your decisions. Being selective about the advice you give is fine, but once someone has already done something, the best you can do is tell them you disagree. Telling someone exactly what to do is always wrong in this practice.

MC

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Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 01:25:54 AM »
I would tell mib_????? to sod off, because we are full. However, I lie to him and tell him it cant be done.

If it was someone IRL I would help them of course. I would tell them to keep it a secret.

This.

Although, I would tell IRL people to sod off too.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 12:24:02 PM »
I mean the ethical rules; the code of conduct many people seem to comform to.

Which is also what they hide behind whenever they have no reasoning to their school of thought. "Why wouldn't I do this?" "Because it's just wrong man!!"

Nothing is "just wrong" and everything social depends on the situation. This includes the relationship between a tulpa and a host. Even if a host makes a tulpa only for sex, if they are really sapient and dislike their existence, the sheer attention the host would give them while living out their fantasies would eventually leave them parallel enough to be able to resist whatever the host wants to do. And tulpas that aren't very independent seem to agree with their host often, so in the early stages of sentience, it probably wouldn't hurt them too much.

Either way; your head, your decisions. Being selective about the advice you give is fine, but once someone has already done something, the best you can do is tell them you disagree. Telling someone exactly what to do is always wrong in this practice.

The way I see it, it can easily lead to trouble that can be prevented. Sure, if the tupper isn't even sapient yet, I can't really argue about how you treat them. It's hard to say if the tulpa is sapient or not in some cases, though, so you (not talking about you personally) could do some nasty things to a sapient tupper thinking it's not sapient. But overall, doing what you want to non-sapient wannabe-tuppers doesn't matter.

However, let's talk about the actually sapient tuppers. Let's say they can and will resist. But first of all, the tulpa might feel bad that they're not what the host wanted. That can be very difficult for some and isn't going to get better unless the host accepts the tulpa or the tulpa becomes what the host wants, but that probably won't make the tupper feel too good.

But let's now assume the tulpa we're talking about is a STRONG, INDEPENDENT TUPPER WHO NEEDS NO HOST, who is happy with who they grew up to be and doesn't want to change, and doesn't really care what the host thinks or resists and doesn't let the host have his or her way with them. Crisis averted, host can't do anything to tulpa. Except the host is the only link to the real, physical world the tulpa has. What if they want to talk with someone outside the body, what if they want to use the body, what if they want to do something that requires it? It would be pretty difficult to do if the host and tulpa weren't in a good relationship. Impossible, even, if they dislike each other and aren't going to accept the other until they do what they want. Seeing that I have a tulpa who is really interested in the physical world, it would be very difficult to him if he wasn't allowed to have that option due to our shaky relationship. And well, as a host, I wouldn't want to force my tulpa to live a life like that. Nor would I want to live a life like that if I were a tulpa. So I guess I'll go the moralfag route of "treat others how you'd want yourself to be treated" or someshit.

Could the host learn that they can't treat their tulpa like shit and should accept them even if they didn't turn out exactly how they wanted? Sure, they could. But I think it would be easier and safer for everyone if they learned it before they started forcing a tulpa. The simple question of "can I allow the tulpa to be who they want to be?" would already go far. This is something I definitely think many starting tulpamancers should ask themselves. After all, if you don't want a being that is shaped by many things and often ends up quite different from what you thought, maybe you shouldn't make a tulpa.


Also, Fede, just posting that image doesn't really do anything. You don't explain what you mean with it to others, so it's pretty useless and brings nothing to the conversation. I suggest you explain yourself or else it ends up being something pretty spammy.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2013, 02:14:37 PM »
I can't say I agree with forcing a tulpa to be what you want. That isn't really what this is about, is it? If you wanted the perfect waifu companion, just have a normal imaginary friend without a hint of sapience. Or at least, pretend sapience if nothing else, in case tulpas aren't sapient despite feeling that way. Easier for everyone, less effort and no problems with clashing interests.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 02:59:39 PM »
Not sure if I'm reading you right, but you're saying that in the end, no matter what, the tulpa will do their own thing and become what they want? That's kinda what that one sentence implied to me.

It was hard to say if you were planning on having the image be your go-to reaction to many things, so I felt like I'd like to at least squeeze out a meaning for it. Even then, it would still be nice if you could explain it to the rest of the people somewhere, for the sake of curiosity and stuff.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 03:25:28 PM »
Sure, but experiences change people. You do seem to think that the tulpa will deviate, so in the end, your tulpa might have matured into something else after it became "sapient" with a predefined personality?

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 04:11:13 PM »
Really seems like something that has so much going on, it would be impossible to micromanage constantly and perfectly. The tulpa is going to experience things even without you so you couldn't be there to think of their correct reaction or something all the time. Would the choice then be made by them? I dunno, doesn't seem really plausible that a tulpa would never change, very... Inhuman?

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2013, 04:19:16 PM »
Not magic enough to be magick.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 03:47:07 AM »
Seeing that I have a tulpa who is really interested in the physical world, it would be very difficult to him if he wasn't allowed to have that option due to our shaky relationship. And well, as a host, I wouldn't want to force my tulpa to live a life like that. Nor would I want to live a life like that if I were a tulpa. So I guess I'll go the moralfag route of "treat others how you'd want yourself to be treated" or someshit.

And I'll assume that thanks to this mindset, your tulpa is content with you as a host. But not all hosts will have this mindset, nor would they apply it if you would take the time to explain it to them. You can't expect all hosts to be 'decent' hosts(in this case referring to not-entirely-selfish 'decent'), just like not all parents will be decent parents. Some parents do better, others do worse, some do very good, and others do very bad. My point was that you can not dictate another person's methods, you can only advise against something. This doesn't have to be done nicely, of course, but I feel as though some people tend to try to alter other's mentalities too much when they see that their behavior is detrimental towards themselves.

You're not obligated to help others, and if they are not willing to listen, then it is not your job to make them. If you'd be defusing a time bomb, and realized that it would take you more time to defuse it than there is left on the timer, you wouldn't stick around, would you? The same goes for self-destructive people. There's only so much you can do for them, and if they're not open to suggestion, harsh as it may sound, that is too bad for them and their tulpa.

They'll learn eventually.
Or not.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 03:49:56 AM by Ea »

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2013, 05:02:28 AM »
Perhaps I didn't make it clear, but I was referring to "good" hosts as hosts whose tulpas are content with their lifestyle and share a healthy relationship, and "bad" hosts as hosts who do not have that.

The parent and time bomb analogies were just that. Analogies. I was also trying to make a global point and not address anything specific. If you got the point of what I said, you'd know that I was trying to explain how one does not always need to convince someone else to do what they believe is right.

And if you didn't, perhaps I didn't address my point very well.

Re: Best advice for newcomers?
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2013, 07:56:07 AM »
Sure, there's nothing I can do to force someone to do something. But I certainly can tell them how I feel, especially when they ask. I can tell them reasons and maybe show evidence and proof if I somehow could, I could question them and make them think. If nothing works, there's nothing I can do. But us humans do this thing called talking, and it would just be selfish or mean to not warn someone of something you think might end up being harmful for them. Better safe than sorry, we do teach each other in life a lot. And I am a stubborn one so I got plenty of patience, also I really do like some kind of back and forth debates.

And that's why I also suggest the new tulpamancers to look before they leap, for the sake of both them and their tulpa. Not everyone will and I can't do anything about that if they don't listen to my reason. But I don't have to be quiet, either. Do remember, even if someone has a very opposing view to you, they can learn to see your point of it when you just talk and explain your reasons well. I've talked with people who didn't believe in tulpas at all and after that chat, they started seeing them as something possible.

Always wanted to know how it feels to have a time bomb explode in your face... And let's not bring parents and kids into this or this thread will explode, there's plenty I could say about that to make everyone super mad.