Author Topic: Challenging the BodyOS  (Read 316 times)

Challenging the BodyOS
« on: February 08, 2025, 06:59:25 PM »
Over the years, my tuppering journey led me to the realization that the coherence of personality we generally assume simply does not exist. In other words, 'we' do not exist. There is no such thing as a person or individual and it goes far beyond thought processes. The human body is a miracle, consisting of about 35 trillion (3.5×1013) cells working together. The brain has about 85 billion (8.6×109) neurons. And their interactions create the sensations and thought processes we experience as emergent phenomena. But the body is not an entity. The brain is not an entity. More like a superorganism. And most of what 'we' believe to be doing or even saying are rather unconscious routines.This becomes apparent when something goes wrong.
A relative suffered a stroke and the results were bizarre, straight outta a horror movie. He was completely lucid and could move almost normally but was partly unable to make the body execute command routines. Or to use tulpamamancy terms, to fully 'switch' into his body. It would do things in its own in a nonsensical way because the feedback that a task like putting on a coat was successful, was not executed. He did not even realize he put on clothes in an absurdly wrong way or had stopped halfway - like a little kid. The brain did adapt and he re-learned most of the tasks which is remarkable for his very advanced age.

But this shows you're not putting on your clothes. Your brain unconsciously executes routine tasks. Most of what you're doing are routine tasks. I even realized this goes for most small talk. The BodyOS does it, not me or Alice. Realizing this is the key to switching. Possession is a good training to live more consciously which should not be underrated. But it is not necessary. The tupper only needs to be able to execute the routine tasks. Not consciously more an arm.

But back to topic, I am asking you what we can do to wrestle back some control  from the BodyOS to de-zombify ourselves.
Obviously what is necessary are novel tasks, if possible associated with strong emotions. This leads us to imagistic experiences.
I believe children have much more intense experiences because they are 'themselves'. They don't yet have most task outsourced to unconscious routines and everything is novel. You know I'm not fond of doing reckless things like climbing on bridges  but once in a while it's necessary.

Which leads us to the 2nd part - getting the BodyOS to stop doing dumb things. This is hard and causes Alice a lot of trouble. She only partly succeeded and gave up on a lot of things but only temporarily. The problem is that the BodyOS works on deeply ingrained routines and breaking or overwriting them is extremely hard unless you suffer significant brain damage.

A funny example - when I was a child, I was terribly afraid of heights. It was not an irrational fear per se, I was afraid of falling down and killing myself. But it became absurd. I managed to get a more realistic view on what's dangerous and what's not fairly soon as a child, but the eerie feeling associated with heights remained at a level that impaired the body's work. Alice made me do some crazy things when she was young and also for work I had to climb some absurdly high radio towers a few time. It was safe, I was not afraid at all, but the body was still shaking. Alice could never shut this off.
I know the solution would simply to do this over and over again. Gotta go rock climbing or something.

Bottom line, the BodyOS is stubborn, lazy and it's extremely tough to change its habits.
We haven't yet found a good way to deal with it.


Re: Challenging the BodyOS [Bear]
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2025, 09:01:14 PM »
Cracks knuckles

>Over the years, my tuppering journey led me to the realization that the coherence of personality we generally assume simply does not exist. In other words, 'we' do not exist. There is no such thing as a person or individual and it goes far beyond thought processes.

Absolutely, we are nothing, we are arbitrary, so we can be anything, or we have everything potential. That said, we are built as a persona, as a personality through experience with situations and feedback, ego, conditioning and other means to be a person that has coherence and is predictable from situation to situation, this is however completely arbitrary and can be affected and changed and even replaced. I do wonder, however, if there is an underlying personality that might be epigenetic or extra-mental. If there is, I can almost completely suppress it arbitrarily. I say almost completely only because I cannot be sure from only my own pseudo-external perspective. However again, I have had headmates of mine switched in and others who have experienced 'me' given this state have become befuddled and have even asked, "who are you?"

[Ashley] Not even trying to be different then Bear but it's noticeable.

>The human body is a miracle, consisting of about 35 trillion (3.5×1013) cells working together. The brain has about 85 billion (8.6×109) neurons. And their interactions create the sensations and thought processes we experience as emergent phenomena. But the body is not an entity. The brain is not an entity. More like a superorganism. And most of what 'we' believe to be doing or even saying are rather unconscious routines.

There is an unseen hand, an unconscious actor. If I identify as only the conscious mind/actor, then I am woefully without initiation for 99% of what happens at any given moment. I noticed this first and most profoundly when writing novels, and in doing so, as many other authors have noted, the experience is that the book writes itself, and in my case to such a degree that I experienced imposter syndrome where I wondered if I could even write at all as I wasn't <<in any way>> consciously doing it.

>This becomes apparent when something goes wrong. A relative suffered a stroke and the results were bizarre, straight outta a horror movie. He was completely lucid and could move almost normally but was partly unable to make the body execute command routines. Or to use tulpamancy terms, to fully 'switch' into his body. It would do things in its own in a nonsensical way because the feedback that a task like putting on a coat was successful, was not executed. He did not even realize he put on clothes in an absurdly wrong way or had stopped halfway - like a little kid. The brain did adapt and he re-learned most of the tasks which is remarkable for his very advanced age.

I think you hit the correct analogy but then if he wasn't switched in, who was, and if no one then indeed it was BodyOS, however, a damaged version of the program because BodyOS does 90% of everything, and should perform such tasks flawlessly. It does so every day. 9% is then the subconscious actor interrupting the BodyOS and 1% (and that's being generous) is the conscious actor. Don't believe that the BodyOS includes the unconscious actor or you will have quite a problem on your hands, you are making the decisions unless you believe in pure deterministic behavior which I will never. So your picture is also correct, at birth it's not, but by now you're not required to think to put on your pants correctly.

>But this shows you're not putting on your clothes. Your brain unconsciously executes routine tasks. Most of what you're doing are routine tasks. I even realized this goes for most small talk. The BodyOS does it, not me or Alice. Realizing this is the key to switching. Possession is a good training to live more consciously which should not be underrated. But it is not necessary. The tupper only needs to be able to execute the routine tasks. Not consciously more an arm.

This is also correct with my reckoning I do not type, my headmates do not type, the BodyOS does, the hands do on their own, I merely tell them what to type and not even consciously. I guarantee you my conscious mind right now has no idea what the next word is going to be right now elephant popcorn. Not always, but nearly always.

>But back to topic, I am asking you what we can do to wrestle back some control from the BodyOS to de-zombify ourselves.

Yes, you do so every time you associate. Are you breathing right now? Take a breath. You just associated to your lungs. Where are your legs right now and what are they doing? You were likely not associated to them. The minimum of your association is eyes perhaps? I can at will completely go into way back position with no one in front, completely switched out with no one switched in, but there is no novel thought left in the driver's seat and no memories created. The BodyOS can do most things including most math and chores while I'm thinking of things completely outside of reality and without any memories left. The holy grail "can I switch out and have total amnesia?" yes. I do. But BodyOS will at least tell me when something unusual happens. Not when I just missed my exit unfortunately because BodyOS assumes a destination or task complete state that may not align with my desires, this is not novel thought, this is a predictive model. Yes, BodyOS is AI trained by the experience of your life.

>Obviously what is necessary are novel tasks, if possible associated with strong emotions. This leads us to imagistic experiences.

Yes, but not exclusively

I believe children have much more intense experiences because they are 'themselves'. They don't yet have most task outsourced to unconscious routines and everything is novel. You know I'm not fond of doing reckless things like climbing on bridges  but once in a while it's necessary.

BodyOS is untrained, so they have to do the things that train it, you could say children are like AI training simulators as well, they try things they've never done, fail miserably and try again, but they can also learn by example and later by instruction, written, visual or verbal, as many other animals can.

Which leads us to the 2nd part - getting the BodyOS to stop doing dumb things. This is hard and causes Alice a lot of trouble. She only partly succeeded and gave up on a lot of things but only temporarily. The problem is that the BodyOS works on deeply ingrained routines and breaking or overwriting them is extremely hard unless you suffer significant brain damage.

The majority of BodyOS is controlled by conditioning, stimulus response classical conditioning and the maladies it performs: intrusive thoughts, compulsions, and other uncontrolled behavior is from unresolved traumas or negative conditioning, which can include addiction. How to solve the majority of this is traditional psychotherapy, specifically I used self-directed regression therapy during walking meditation. It worked wonders turning 99% egoistic compulsion to literally 1 or 2% a complete reversal. The second part would be, don't do what you don't want the body to do, and this is very difficult when you have compulsive thoughts that are begging, seductively flattering you to do what you don't want. That too has lessened to the point of trivial matters, for me it was overeating. I haven't done that in years and dieting is simple when weight does drift up.

A funny example - when I was a child, I was terribly afraid of heights. It was not an irrational fear per se, I was afraid of falling down and killing myself. But it became absurd. I managed to get a more realistic view on what's dangerous and what's not fairly soon as a child, but the eerie feeling associated with heights remained at a level that impaired the body's work. Alice made me do some crazy things when she was young and also for work I had to climb some absurdly high radio towers a few time. It was safe, I was not afraid at all, but the body was still shaking. Alice could never shut this off.
I know the solution would simply to do this over and over again. Gotta go rock climbing or something.


This is exposure therapy, I did that with Ashley but it's far far less effective than finding the source of the issue and resolving it there, in the past, when it happened.

>Bottom line, the BodyOS is stubborn, lazy and it's extremely tough to change its habits.
We haven't yet found a good way to deal with it.


Bottom line, ya need therapy, regression therapy worked for me, I did it myself, you should look into it. Remember all that Chakra write up I did with shadow work, the shadow work is the method, the chakra work helps you find where the insecurities, anxieties, and compulsions come from. Go look it up.

Problem solved, carry on.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 09:10:14 PM by Aleshe »