Tulpa Network
Tulpas => General Discussion => Topic started by: waffles on September 21, 2013, 08:04:48 PM
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So I tried playing Tic Tac Toe (T/N: Noughts and Crosses) with my tulpa. After maybe 30 or 40 games, my tulpa had established her dominance. Not only is it strange that I would ever lose, it is doubly strange that when I paid the most attention to her plans I lost the most frequently.
So, play Tic Tac Toe with your tulpas and post results.
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http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7842/qdzw.png
It's pretty difficult for us.
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Really interesting idea. The game turned into a very nice focuser actually, and really let us all talk to each other without too many distractions, which was a surprise bonus. Kate won the first four rounds, I started winning the next few, we had a few draws as well. Another cool game to help with/focus on independence I think.
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Me and 16-Volte tried this a while back. We ended up trying to block eachother's moves the whole time and just ended up with ties.
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So I tried playing Tic Tac Toe (T/N: Noughts and Crosses) with my tulpa. After maybe 30 or 40 games, my tulpa had established her dominance. Not only is it strange that I would ever lose, it is doubly strange that when I paid the most attention to her plans I lost the most frequently.
So, play Tic Tac Toe with your tulpas and post results.
I always found this one funny. Tic Tac Toe is a very simple game that really anyone can play. It's not surprising that she managed to dominate you on the playing field, Waffles. The game doesn't take much strategy. Now, go play a real man's game with your tulpa -- chess.
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So I tried playing Tic Tac Toe (T/N: Noughts and Crosses) with my tulpa. After maybe 30 or 40 games, my tulpa had established her dominance. Not only is it strange that I would ever lose, it is doubly strange that when I paid the most attention to her plans I lost the most frequently.
So, play Tic Tac Toe with your tulpas and post results.
I always found this one funny. Tic Tac Toe is a very simple game that really anyone can play. It's not surprising that she managed to dominate you on the playing field, Waffles. The game doesn't take much strategy. Now, go play a real man's game with your tulpa -- chess.
On a subnote, I find Tic Tac Toe to be a bit too easy, and non-engaging. It's easy to gain the upper hand against an opponent like Sorryman (or anyone else for that matter). Really, as he said, you should try a more engaging game that is less-repetitive like chess. With TTT the game is just about getting a straight line and really that's not very hard to do, but it's fun from time to time.
I think I'd probably win after a few turns. And besides, it's really easy to anticipate his movements when I can see what he's going to do before he does it!
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What you're saying is, you didn't play TicTacToes.
Mayor pls. I played it 22323 times just now.
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Lies. Sarcastic statements. Maybe both.
Is it a lie? Is it true? We'll never know.
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I told you waffles.
Anyways, why it is so difficult is because they know what your move will be and basically flaunt what their move is going to be after that. So you start overthinking and doubting your own move in the first place so you can play right into their devious little tupper trap. But I found out you can use that too and then he played into my traps and it felt better than anything. Playing Tic Tac Toe on your own and losing/feeling good when you win. Not sure what to think of that.
5 draws, 5 for him, 6 for me, tiebreaker game. I think I found an almost consistent way to beat him in the end, but I think I'll forget it soon enough and then I'm back to square one. Or he learns and comes up with a better plan. Making your opponent overthink is the key. I don't even know how chess would be when Tic Tac Toe already manages to get super complicated like this. I don't know chess though so I can't be the one testing.
One of the games he basically let me win though, so not sure how good of a win I can call my "win". Changed his better move to a worse one. Why.
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Tic Tac Toe may be easy but that's what makes it so interesting in this context. As with all very simple games, the battle becomes mostly psychology with your opponent; Sands' testimony says as much. Playing chess is fine but I guess it takes a bit more development on your tulpa's behalf to plan ahead enough moves to make it a thoroughly tactical game and not at least partly down to luck. Chances are you aren't that good either. Either way, it's the psychology of the game that's interesting and not the game itself. There's always Ultimate Tic Tac Toe if you want something complex.
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I've played several games with my tulpas, ranging from rhythm games to pokemon to (hotseat) chess, and I've found that in pretty much all of these games, at least one of them heavily outsmarted/outplayed me. For one, they seemed to learn faster than I did, and were more focused on the task than I was. For example, while playing Osu, Ea would often tell me that I pay too much attention to the health bar/combo/accuracy as opposed to the notes themselves, and said that that's why she's able to consistently break my highscores while she's playing, because she focuses solely on hitting notes and nothing more. A similar thing went for Valkyrie and chess, though she didn't provide me with much of an analysis as to why she was able to play better than me.
After lots of playing with tulpas I'd say the difference in their ability would be their mindset/ability to focus. Perhaps not having to deal with mundane stuff all the time makes you a better thinker?
I didn't play Tic Tac Toe with them yet, but here's Ea's score on Osu in contrast to my own http://puu.sh/4mZ3Y (top two are Ea, bottom is me)
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Every time 16-Volte and I play tic tac toe we end up getting ties. We try too hard to block eachother.
However, I did get him twice before and he got me once. Other than that we're always at a stalemate.
He always loses at connect 4 too.
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Tic tac toe is a LOT of fun for us, we could play it for hours :grin:
I think my host is slightly better at it than I am, but we're pretty evenly matched.
90% of the time we tie :tongue:
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Playing tic-tac-toe ended in draws except for the one time I tried to be especially smart - and lost.
We tried Connect Four today.
Played 6 games and lost all of them. I don't even...
No matter who started and where, tupper always won. Being someone who rather loses an interesting game than winning a boring one I might have taken this a bit too easy in the first attempts but I really tried everything to beat her in the last 4 games. With little effect except even more sarcastic remarks from her side.
Overall we must have played 20+ games, I didn't mange to win a single one. Not even once.
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Yada yada you want her to win and so she does also I'm a faggot who deletes all his posts
Seems to be the most reasonable explanation.
I'm not much of an over-zealously competitive person who has to win at all costs.
So we played Connect Four for a double-length forcing session, something I'm not particularly keen on as sitting still for an hour is not really what I would call comfortable. As an incentive for me to win.
(https://i.ibb.co/r004DVQ/tic-tac-toe.jpg)
Well, all I can say is I lost after 6 moves, faster than ever before.
We did a re-match just for fun which I indeed managed to win, but I have the feeling it was only due to Alice's deliberate choice of an unfavorable starting position. Basically I only won because she acted as recklessly as I did when I lost at 3x3 tic-tac-toe.
We did a 3rd round for some boring chores I had been avoiding for a while now - which I lost again. Have to do it tomorrow. Whee...
Now I need to find more unpleasant stuff I really don't want to do and see if that incentive to win has any influence on my gameplay. Will report back in a few days.
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Game SCIENCE.
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Will report back in a few days.
Well, almost.
Tic Tac Toe appears to be a pretty good tupper diagnosis tool
We've played about 60 games of connect-four on 8x8 from May to July of which the tupper won more than 2/3.
I tried again today and I easily won 4 out of 4. Extremely weird. But it shows there's definately somethin wrong. Alice is much, much weaker than in May, or even January.
I think Fede's explanation bears some truth, I probably did want her to win in the beginning and put more focus into her rounds than mine. But even later when we played for me doing unpleasant chores she managed to win significantly more than 50%.
Concluson:
need to force moar