Author Topic: Tupper Manipulation  (Read 5583 times)

Argentum

  • and Sara died
  • *
    • View Profile
Tupper Manipulation
« on: August 25, 2014, 12:58:16 PM »
Anyone with a pulse has heard of the recent advances in genetic engineering that allow people to alter the DNA of living creatures to produce a desired effect.  Some examples are the genetic modification of corn and soybeans to resist Round-Up, or the genetic manipulation of male mosquitoes to limit their population.

So what does this have to do with tuppers?????

Well that brings me to my discussion question.  My question is this: is it possible to manipulate a tupper at its basic level?  To force it to change in one way or another?  I have heard stories of people getting irritated when their rainbow dash tupper wasn't a carbon copy of the character from the show but I haven't heard much about change actually succeeding.  Even if you don't really know, but have some two cents to put in the communal change jar, please step up and donate.

I want it to be clear that I do consider genetic manipulation, and theoretical tupper manipulation past the creation stage to be unethical.  Never will I practise or advocate anything to harm a tupper or any other sentient being.

Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 09:49:05 PM »
Well, could they be forced to be something they don't want to be? Assuming that these are tuppers and not just puppets, I could see it going a few ways.

Some people might claim that they can control everything about the tupper whether or not they like it. That they can change their personality in a second or something. While I would say that if this actually happens, it's not a truly independant and sapient tupper like we would require them to be for them to be "real" tuppers... I guess there's the possibility that the host and tupper think this can happen, so it does happen. Considering that everything happens inside their heads, that stuff can be easily manipulated if they don't realize that it can be stopped. There could even be some symbolism that the host and tupper believe in so much that it overrides the tupper's own free will or powers. I guess it could also happen to a host and a host could be molded in the same way, but it's going to require a pretty strange mindset for it to work. A mindset that might be impossible to achieve unless we're looking at a really submissive personality that thinks the one "controlling" them is much more powerful than them and able to do anything they want. They would basically have to give up and give in, not resisting in any way. Not many conscious beings would want to do that, I think.

Or that it just plain isn't possible because a tupper has such a strong will and is able to resist what you try to force them into because they don't want to do it. The more confident a tupper is of their own abilities, the harder it would be to force them into something they don't want. If you have managed to create a tupper that is truly independent strong tupper that needs no host, you're not going to be able to force them into something they absolutely do not want to do. Assuming you don't pull some shit out of your ass that fools them into thinking you can suddenly override their will, of course. Or they somehow agree to it, which might or might not take hold and would most likely change eventually, as an actual person will never stay the same. If you remove their ability to learn and change, I'd say you remove their personhood - and that way also their tupper status as they no longer seem exactly sapient or "realistic". Again, not something I would see happening to an actual tupper unless they have a fucked up mindset.

Some actual "forcing" might happen during personality and form forcing, as you create a personality and a form which they are then "forced" to use. But honestly, I'm not sure how much of it would affect them if they decide they want to do something else instead. A forced personality would be a rather simple one in the start anyways and they would only truly mature and grow into their own person through experiences and time. It's something you can't force and even if you do personality forcing, you are going to end up with something that had grown to be what they are now, not something that you forced to act the way it does.

Unless you are actually forcing it to act the way it does because it's a puppet. What do I know.

Re: Penis Manipulation
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 11:08:17 AM »
Unless of course the tupper was meant to be nothing more but a sapient character that would stick to its defined personality and evolve from that instead of going its own way like a strong, independent tuppper that needs no host. Perhaps this character would simply live in its own universe, this universe, or both. It would appear intelligent and act on its own, and there'd be room for possession, switching, and all that jizz. It comes down to the mindset, as suggested by Colonel. Whom would one be to say one mindset is better than the other in a subjective business like this? If an "automatic parrot", a tupper spawned from narration, and a regular person without any of the aforementioned two would all equally be able to convince another person that they're real, what's not to love? Would any of them be lying, or are lies simply as untrue as one believes them to be when it's all in the mind in the first place?

I dislike the striving for legitimacy there always existed in the community. I was a slave to it myself in the beginning, before I put it behind me. Screw ethics, I got imagination. Until I figure out what my tupper was/is, I'll just assume the hypothesis of non-local minds and say she came from outer space.

To give a shorter answer to the original question about modifying a personality in the mind at its basic level, I'd also just say it comes down to the mindset of the one trying to do the change, and how much control the "changer" in question is able to exert.

Argentum

  • and Sara died
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 01:09:28 AM »
I always thought the first point you brought up would happen Sands, considering that most people use symbolism to force, and view tuppers as an extension or part of themselves in one way or another.  But I sure wish there were *strong* tuppers that don't need no humyn.

I think its time to do some science and make a forced tupper.

But where's the research section?

Re: Tupper Manipenis
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 03:09:26 AM »
Hardly any of the "research" in the research tulpa.info subforum is very "scientific" to begin with. Either it's some survey/answer questions thread or a "hey guys try this thing that will yield subjective results for everyone" thread. Research here wouldn't be much different. Just a bunch of experiments from which one can't form any useful conclusions.

I think it's time to not do science, because we're not scientific. At all.

There is no research section.

Argentum

  • and Sara died
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 05:08:37 AM »
Is there a fund to buy a brain scanner for the tulpa community?  We could see if roleplaying really does change the brain, and some hypotheses could be possibly proven or disproven.  Some real science, instead of how many in the tupper community have fursona tulpas.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 05:11:24 AM by Argentum »

Re: Tupper Penispulation
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 05:46:13 AM »
The idea of raising money for buying monitoring equipment has been brought up many times in the community's history. People never cared enough and will never care enough to help reach the funding goal. As for how much proof the results would suffice to be even if any of us owned something like an EEG, I shall not be one to say. Would it be you or the tupper causing the activity? Are you just good at "faking" it, which in itself questions just how irrelevant "legitimacy" can be? Tuppers are impossible to objectively prove. Waste of time. We came here for the mental companions and stayed for the IRC.

Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 08:26:55 AM »
I always thought the first point you brought up would happen Sands, considering that most people use symbolism to force, and view tuppers as an extension or part of themselves in one way or another.  But I sure wish there were *strong* tuppers that don't need no humyn.

I'm afraid your claims are [citation needed] material. I guess it depends what community you are looking at and which people, but I would say that most of those I have seen think that tuppers are very independant and separate from themselves - maybe even more than they really are. Similarly I'm not sure how much symbolism gets used by many forcers when aiming for vocality, seeing how people tend to do that by narration more or less and many other steps like personality can be skipped. I don't see how you would add symbolism to talking to a tupper.

Whether these beliefs are correct or not, I wouldn't know. But many still seem to think this is right and will get angry if you suggest anything less.

I think its time to do some science and make a forced tupper.

When you have no proof if something is or isn't sapient and conscious but it acts that way, do you want to take the risk and do some potentially unethical SCIENCE? Ps. you need more tubes.

But where's the research section?

In your heart. Or right here. It is the general tulpa discussion forum after all, you can discuss about anything tupper-related. Why shouldn't it be used for research if you have actual ideas that might be done.

I think there was one guy who used some cheap EEG thing already. But it's not some definite proof at all, as stuff can always be faked. We don't have a method to "prove" tuppers and I'm not sure if we ever will have it, but with the current technology... Well, the stuff we would do would only sate our curiosity instead of being real SCIENCE.

Re: Tuppenis Manipulation
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 08:44:17 AM »
Heh. You made a spelling error.

Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 08:56:42 AM »
ohno that's what happens when I don't proofread :<<<

Argentum

  • and Sara died
  • *
    • View Profile
Re: Tupper Manipulation
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 05:23:20 PM »



Quote
I'm afraid your claims are [citation needed] material. I guess it depends what community you are looking at and which people, but I would say that most of those I have seen think that tuppers are very independant and separate from themselves - maybe even more than they really are. Similarly I'm not sure how much symbolism gets used by many forcers when aiming for vocality, seeing how people tend to do that by narration more or less and many other steps like personality can be skipped. I don't see how you would add symbolism to talking to a tupper.

Whether these beliefs are correct or not, I wouldn't know. But many still seem to think this is right and will get angry if you suggest anything less.


Makes sense.  My personal experiences are not everyone's.  I am not there yet.  Yet.

Quote
When you have no proof if something is or isn't sapient and conscious but it acts that way, do you want to take the risk and do some potentially unethical SCIENCE? Ps. you need more tubes.

Sure.  They did it with cats and LSD.  Besides, even if tuplas are sentient, you can always make more.  I have a 20 MHz oscilloscope in the basement somewhere.  Would that suffice for science? 

Not that it matters of course.  Its impossible to prove that the tupla is really separate anyway.


« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:30:12 PM by Argentum »