Author Topic: Adventures in Psyche Schisms  (Read 10634 times)

Re: Adventures in Typing Alternative Things
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2015, 03:37:18 PM »
As for Fede's beliefs, the main thing that differs is that his definition of a tulpa is much wider than ours. He says tulpa, he means pretty much anything in your imagination no matter how separate or independent it seems. We say tulpa and we mean a thing that should feel like another person and definitely has fooled us into thinking that they really are.

Well, at any rate, when you create a person in your imagination and keep interacting with it, it'll inevitably feel autonomous and bring about a feeling of being "separate" at some point. At least, that's where I'm trying to go with my point, but I think I somehow fuck up my explanation of my mindset every time.

Despite what he says, he doesn't really seem to think that what we want out of a tulpa is impossible. Some tuppers he likes more than the host and seems to wish that they take over so the host wouldn't spend as much time in the real world, so that seems to imply to me that the tupper in question is given some kind of personhood in his eyes, as they could replace the host person. Similarly when it comes to some tuppers, they can have pretty normal conversations without Fede going on about his belief things.

It's fun to play along.

Many of the newer tuppers tend to get to taste his opinions, though.

"Question is, why'd you let us in at all?"
"An audition."
"An audition for what?"
"Doesn't matter. You failed."


And can't forget how his own tupper back in the day would do a lot of stuff on her own even if it was something Fede didn't like, like creating a wonderland when he was very against that kind of stuff and only finding out about it later. So there's some irony about the guy with the very separate-feeling tupper saying these things.

Back then, I wasn't as skeptical as I am today. I was more open to suggestion and willing to assume certain things happening perhaps had some kind of higher meaning. I was a bigger fan of the "real person" mindset. I considered parroting more of an interface to "the real her". So, if a random occurrence related to the tulip took place, I analysed it and wondered "if it were actually from her" or something – which, in hindsight, was incredibly stupid. She told me she used the remains of a series of worlds I designed as her wonderland, when the more likely case was that I wanted to believe that and thus accepted the notion, and thereby her claim. Or one could use the more touching version and say I trusted her, but I'm through with that kind of thinking. No more. No tears. Only imagination.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2015, 09:02:34 PM »
Well, that's a whole darn lot to reply to, and on mobile to boot. Alright... In order....

Dimmer, got it. Will it work on my phone if I hold it close to my face or do I just need to wait until I get my computer back and running?

Yes, you do have a tulpa. I wanted another's opinion; obviously you'd agree with yourself after all. Not discounting your own experience here.

And then comes the meat of it. Well. I could say a whole lot of stuff now but I feel I should just condense it and say that yes, authenticity is all I want out of this, and if some Mr Science Dude could give me concrete evidence that it was all imagination tomorrow, I'd quit tulpas entirely. Not out of anger or anything, but simply because the whole concept would in that light would thus fail to deliver what I actually want in the first place: not fun or sensory stimulation above and beyond the normal human experience, but a COMPANION.

Alright, Sands, I'll try and apply that to what I'm doing now. Small sessions where I can if big ones get derailed. Whatever works and feels like it's working above and beyond time counting. Don't fear parroting and such.

And, uh. I guess weigh everything else you said against Fede's philosphy. Which I find a bit cold and empty, not gonna lie. Last four lines there made me cringe.

And now I'm gonna just go off and try turpentine things and try not to be too spooked off the whole thing. this got entirely too cereal for something I got into for fun and feels sweet merciful goodness why

Re: Adventures in Scribbling
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2015, 05:58:58 AM »
Will it work on my phone if I hold it close to my face or do I just need to wait until I get my computer back and running?

It will work on what I assume is a smartphone of yours. Make sure to do the equalivent screen brightness and contrast stuff in it, such that its blacks and whites are as extrapolated as possible, your room is as dark as possible, and that you have earbuds or headphones to plug into the smartphone. The overall effect won't be as great due to the smaller flashing area, but it'll still work. Just hold the smartphone close enough to your face.

If you have an older phone like mine (K800i), you'll have to convert the thing to 3GP first, and probably hold the phone even closer to your face, although even then it would still work. Maybe I should've just released Eye-Bo in 3GP instead of MP4 in the first place. Not everyone feels like throwing a bunch of money into a smartphone when you can get a perfectly capable phone for 10-15 euros.

I could say a whole lot of stuff now but I feel I should just condense it and say that yes, authenticity is all I want out of this, and if some Mr Science Dude could give me concrete evidence that it was all imagination tomorrow, I'd quit tulpas entirely. Not out of anger or anything, but simply because the whole concept would in that light would thus fail to deliver what I actually want in the first place: not fun or sensory stimulation above and beyond the normal human experience, but a COMPANION.

Such a pity. Worry not, though; you're already creating a companion through imagination, because tuppers are imaginary friends – or at least, it's much easier to categorise them into such, instead of delving into a hundred alternative explanations for what they are. Because "imaginary friend" is apparently such a derogatory no-no term, even though it doesn't imply a lack of vividness or autonomy.

Authenticity is something you'll never get, because what defines authenticity? Mr Science Dude could test you via one of those fancy electroencephalographical devices, and he could tell you some patterns occur here and there, but he would never be able to confirm what's "authentic". If you can't figure out what authenticity in your own mind is, or what distinguishes a hallucination from a TULPA, how on Earth would he, a man outside your mind? Is "authenticity" to you really just this sort of magical thing that will solve all problems if you just keep trying hard enough? That if you just keep at it, then surely, some day, you'll be enlightened, your imaginary friend will be authentic and real, and you will be happy?

I guess weigh everything else you said against Fede's philosphy. Which I find a bit cold and empty, not gonna lie.

Yes, the poor tuppers. How dare I insult them. Tuppers have feelings, too. They are real people, after all. Their feelings are real and authentic, unlike imaginary friends or characters, the feelings of which are irrelevant; those are neither real nor authentic.

Last four lines there made me cringe.

Which last four lines specifically? The ones where I find it quite rich how puzzled people are over the tupper concept because it's made so convoluted and tedious that people don't even know where to begin, and that people blindly buy into that instead of just creating a thing in their head, doing it much more effectively, and still having it feel autonomous over time given practice? Autonomy seems to be the only redeeming quality of the tupper concept, and autonomy is easy to establish if you do it right. No need to complicate everything with Tibetan words and ancient concepts when you're just working with your imagination, unless it makes you feel more special.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 11:21:32 AM by Fede »

Re: Contingencies within Individuality Splinter Groups
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2015, 01:57:26 AM »
I think I scared him off. Probably should've wrapped it in more instead of being so blunt. That's what I get for being direct. Maybe he just can't be arsed to answer, though.

MegaBusta

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2015, 12:22:25 PM »
Good game, Fede.