Tulpa Network

Tulpas => Tulpa Diaries => Topic started by: Alexius Aurelius on June 15, 2015, 09:13:33 PM

Title: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 15, 2015, 09:13:33 PM
Can't actually recall how I got into the Tulpa thing, but somehow I got to reading about it and it struck a chord with me. Reminded me of some odd experiences I've had, way back in my old RPing days back in high school. I couldn't resist trying my hand at it for a few reasons, though by now I just feel an odd- and pleasant- sense of attachment to this little concept floating in my brain.

There's a stunning amount of- depressingly contradictory- information out there about how this process is supposed to work. Thus far I've done two serious 15 minute sessions of personality forcing regarding my nascent tulpa, and I am going to be trying some visualization instead tonight. Figure that spare amounts of personality forcing here and there ought to keep her core/backbone intact, whilst she grows and develops.

Name: Lunesta (like the sleeping pill)
Sex: F
Personality Traits: Introverted, sensing, feeling, perceiving; hates emnity between friends, can be a closed book, competitive, curious, learns through doing, cheerful, supportive, mercurial, determined, spontaneous, has faith.
Likes: Animals, tyrian purple, produce, jazz music.
Dislikes: Scorpions, orange, pop, overcooked or highly processed food.

I envision and have seeded her with an active, outgoing personality, and thus wonder if making a Wonderland more fun than my plain and stable life might not help her grow and develop. Thoughts or advice would be welcomed.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 16, 2015, 01:24:49 AM
Welcome to the community. What information have you found to be contradicting? If anything confuses you, feel free to ask any questions you have. Short sessions of personality forcing like that are good, but it would be valuable to spend as much time as you can talking to your tulpa in your daily life. Getting into the habit of talking to them sooner rather than later is a good thing, and it can't hurt development to speak to her when you have a moment to yourself when you commute or something.

Tulpa and wonderland aren't capitalized. I don't know if a fun wonderland will be as valuable as engaging your tulpa in a way that allows her to be active and outgoing. A wonderland might help, to a degree, but your own influence is paramount.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 16, 2015, 06:56:03 AM
Noted, I'll cease capitalization of them then.

Primarily what confused me was reading from some sources that it was /imperative/ to spend much time with personality forcing, visualizing, et cetera, while others said, golly, you can just passive force amd narrate forever and it'll work! Also, whether of not parroting/puppeting is helpful. What I've read on it ranges from 'you'll speak over your tulpa that way' to 'do it all the time until it becomes second nature.' I like to think that at least I managed to set good expectations for myself regarding the whole process.

Been doing a bit to talk to her when I can, about whatever, but I get nervous that it doesn't do anything. Should I parrot a response for her, or perhaps just keep what I've been doing- visualizing her and then just talking to her without regards to responses?

Spent yesterday visualizing in my session with her. A short recap of personality traits, then trying to clearly bring her up in my mind's eye. Five minutes of that proved difficult, so I brought the room's image up in my mind's eye and puppeted her around in that, visualized how she'd move, walking around, hopping onto things, laying down....

Spoke with her and parroted responses the whole time, and unexpectedly had a minor argument with her over a little snippy disobedience. I suspect since it's so eaely in the process that it was just my very well-developed ability to imagine characters and what they would think/say in a situation, though, which makes me nervous. Between that and some problems with intrusive thoughts, I don't know if I SHOULD do the parroting thing.

That said, felt productive, ended the session feeling happy and relaxed and pretty attached to the babby tupper.

Edit: What do you mean, a way that would allow her to be active and outgoing? What could I do to ensure that?
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Sands on June 16, 2015, 08:15:33 AM
This thing in general is something that no one really understands. We don't know why it happens or how it happens, all we have are our own theories and methods that worked for us. Back in the day you'd have to force for exactly 100something hours to get a vocal tupper, once you imposed them they no longer could change their form and if you didn't visualize a tupper without their clothes, those clothes would be stuck to them. Absolutely idiotic stuff, really. It's the imagination, so pretty much anything is possible.

Because we don't know why something is happening, you should avoid those people who say something will work 100% of the time or if you do something they dislike, it's wrong and RUINS YOUR TULPA. This whole thing is pretty unique to us all and some manage to get a tupper by literally doing nothing while others need to spend a lot of time to get something done. When it comes to personality, I just see them as suggestions and as a form of narration, as you are spending time with your tupper and talking to them. I don't feel like that's the thing that will form a tupper, as deviations always happen and the end result can be quite different fromt what you imagined. After all, if people manage to make tuppers without this personality forcing, it can't be all that important, eh? Up to you how much you want to believe though.

Parroting and puppeting are valid methods. This far I've seen two methods, one where you parrot for a while and then stop cold turkey, and one where you parrot until the tupper just starts doing stuff without you. But you're free to experiment, do stuff that feels right to you. I didn't do parroting myself, didn't really feel like my style.

What Yucky means with active and outgoing is probably how many tuppers (especially when they have hosts with poor mindsets) end up being lethargic and passive, never doing anything on their own and are unable to do really anything if the host doesn't pay attention to them. Let your tupper know that they can do their own stuff, change the wonderland to fit themselves and get hobbies they can do when you two aren't together. Sense sharing is also something a lonely tulpa might appreciate, you two do share a body so both of you can choose to feel what the one in the body is currently seeing, hearing and feeling. Might be fun for them to stick around like that so they can experience the outside world. Tell her - and allow her - to try new stuff for herself.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 16, 2015, 08:54:12 AM
One presumes those things will take a while; or can sense sharing and such be done from the beginning?

Edit: I suppose something that'd really set my mind at ease is just knowing what I'm even capable of doing with a tupper whose creation process only began half a week ago.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 16, 2015, 09:47:11 AM
Honestly, when it comes to certain things in your imagination, the sky's the limit. You can see, feel and think whatever you want in your mind, and so can your tulpa. Perhaps it's more helpful to consider she is allowed to sense-share, rather than wondering whether she is able. You can only acknowledge that it's possible for her to imagine sharing your senses, and give her the explicit freedom to do so. Perhaps you can have her follow you around as you go about your daily life at first, or keep her in your wonderland, giving her free reign to move around where she wants to go. Choose for yourself how you want to guide her in these early stages.

Maybe it's a good idea to think about the implications of that, and come up with ways of how something like that can happen. It's indeed good to give your tulpa freedom, especially in the mind, to do what she wants, as Sands said. What I meant was something slightly different, though. I was thinking that to create someone who is outgoing and energetic, you would really need to engage her yourself. Do fun things with her, tell her exciting stories and listen to upbeat music. Talk to her about what it means to be outgoing, a people person, to be motivated and passionate. Explore how she would manifest those ideals, and give her the choice as to how she would like to make those things a part of her, if she does.

Parroting is a fine and valid method, as is narration. Over time, your tulpa will grow into their own independent person, regardless of which of these you pick, as long as you maintain a healthy mindset. Of course, either option will be different in how it shapes the early forcing process, with parroting being more 'rewarding' early on when it comes to interaction, and narration leaving a lot of room for you to meditate on her, yourself, and the world around you. Of course, things are not black and white, and techniques can be combined. Perhaps you could try that?

You shouldn't be afraid of your mind and what happens in it. Don't be scared of parroting or terrified of things going wrong, look at what's happening to you as you go about this with an eager and open, yet critical mind. There's no use to worrying and doubting, and careful thinking and considering possibilities can help put your mind at ease. What your tulpa is capable of right now might not be much, but you can guide her in whichever way you want to stretch your imagination.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 16, 2015, 10:21:24 AM
Alright, that makes sense. Permission to do what she cam and I think would help her... Mixed parroting and narration; that sounds helpful. Fun things. Music definitely would be a go-to for me. Just gotta figure out how to include her at work without boring the hell out of her, haha. And try not to be scared of my brain, though that might be tricky for me.

We'll see where it goes, today.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 16, 2015, 03:03:47 PM
Been talking to her as fairly often as I can at work. Parroting her curiosity, and the rest... Just split 15 minutes into two even chunks of active forcing- one half talking to her about a (very) abridged history of Rome, and the other, reviewing the personality forcing we've done, and visualization. Visualization remains a bit tricky, but it was pretty enjoyable altogether. Parroting still makes me nervous; don't want to put the wrong words in her mouth. Also, are there any good tips for managing and improving expectations? I heard that can be key with the tuppers.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Sands on June 17, 2015, 07:54:48 AM
Not sure if there's any guides about it, but I guess there might be non-tupper stuff related to that. This kind of skils are useful in everyday life as well. But your mindset in general is the key and I wrote this thing (http://tulpanetwork.com/network/1/absence-of-disbelief-or-schrodinger's-tulpa/msg507/#msg507) a while back if you haven't read it yet. A bit different than what you had in mind but could help?
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 17, 2015, 09:05:19 AM
I did see that. Haha, I ought to read that one every damn day to keep my head in the right place. Hrm. Doing as much focus as I can get away with on Lunesta at work- mentally telling her about various stuff (Fallout, today) and parroting responses, etc. Nervous-excited about the whole thing, more and more; makes me wish I could sink eighr damn hours into active forcing.

On that note, what's the quickest (or maybe healthiest?) way to help a tulpa grow to the point where you can really FEEL them? It hasn't even been a week, I know... Don't (necessarily) expect voice this soon but I'm very eager (too eager?) to get some sense of her.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 17, 2015, 12:36:38 PM
The more attention you give your tulpa, the faster things will progress. Keeping your mind on tulpas, thinking about the phenomenon, reading about it all, being excited... That all seems to contribute to how fast things will go, as well. The more you're involved in the process and are eager to move forward, the faster things tend to go. The more aspects of your tulpa's personality you cover, the more you tell her, the more you interact together, the faster you will find she has a comprehensive personality.

Of course, there's the eternal "it's different for everybody", but spending as much time as you can can't hurt.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 17, 2015, 01:34:04 PM
So my 'NEVER TAKE MY MIND OFF HER EVER' strategy is good for her? Radical.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 17, 2015, 09:42:01 PM
Imagining her there constantly has become second nature to me, it seems, even if visualizing is hard. Doing as much... Imposing, I think, as I can, too. Maybe it's the parroting but she seems happy now just to be around so much. Telling her about everything- easier when I'm not in the negative space that is my job- and it's going well. Even if it's just parroting, that means 'happy to spend time with Alexius' will become part of my personality, right?
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 18, 2015, 06:20:21 AM
I'm not sure if being happy someone is around is a personality trait, seems more like a friendship. It's very good to hear it's becoming easy to imagine her with you, you seem to be well on your way. How does it feel to interact with her, right now? Compared to when you first started?

Keep it up, Alexius.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 18, 2015, 06:43:09 AM
Parroting and (poorly and/or challengingly) visualizing feels a whole lot easier. A lot more fluid and natural but then I've developed something very close to parroting, very heavily over years of gammastering and such, so that doesn't surprise me. She pops up now every few minutes or so in my head, which is good because I can address her regularly now. Fed her watermelon concurrently with my own enjoyment of it yesterday; attempting to compensate for my poor ability to think up tastes and flavors by just giving her whatever I'm happening (when it's compatible with her own eating habits). It was pleasant.

Spent half of yesterday's active forcing on a 'proper' introduction in our (still nebulous and half-baked) wonderland, things seemed.to take off after that.

Friendship, this early on? I'll take it. Even if I have a lingering terror that she'll hate me when she achieves true sentience.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 18, 2015, 07:06:23 AM
I think it's almost impossible for a tulpa to hate a host who spends all that effort creating them, nurturing and teaching them, and basically giving them all this loving care. Don't worry about it.

Eating and experiencing things together is always good. Your brain is better at simulating tastes and things than you would think, if you consider how vivid things can be in dreams. Even if you have trouble tasting anything when you imagine it, you can think that things are a lot more vivid for your tulpa, and they will be able to experience imagined things rather easily. That's how it is for my group, at least.

It's always fun to try new things with your tulpa, or have her try new things. Maybe take her back to a memory where you did something exciting, and experience it with her. Go back to memories of amazing food or heck, a fun theme park ride. There's a lot of possibilities.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 18, 2015, 07:16:51 AM
Rodger that! Hrm, now to see if I even have good memories for her, haha. A pity she can't eat meat, takes away so much sensory possibility.

Also, a concern: I heard something about not doing the tupper thing before bed because dreams can mess with them; I kinda seem to be at a point where I can't turn her off (and don't want to); she was part of my (rather bizaare and unpleasant) dreams last night and it has me wondering if tbat could have a negative effect.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Sands on June 18, 2015, 08:03:24 AM
Well, right now your tupper doesn't really have anyone else except you. It could be easy for them to start liking someone who is abusive just because they don't know any better and any attention is better than none.

Luckily due to you two being closer than any other being in this world, you'll be able to understand each other like no one else. Even if you don't agree on things, you'll have a pretty good idea on the thoughts behind those opinions so you understand. Difficult to hate people you understand, even if they do things you dislike.

The dream thing is something that could happen to some, but seems to be a minority. You have to be reading very old things for that to be a thing, it was an idea around like pretty much 3 years ago. I'd say proven to be false considering that most people don't seem to have experienced it, your mindset probably affects this the most. Like if you expect it to do something bad, it will.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 18, 2015, 10:49:41 PM
Didn't do any active forcing today but I've been talking to her since I woke up. Upset her greatly by having a very uneasy thought that the tulpa thing could be considered 'pathetic' (I don't personally believe that, but I do worry about what others might think, which spurred the thought). Took some pretty heartfelt apology to remedy that, but I did. Kind of a low point so far and one I'm not at all proud of. Otherwise things still going well.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Yogi on June 19, 2015, 07:08:55 AM
They're just jealous of your cute imaginary friend.

Dreams are just dreams, I don't think your tulpa will be heavily traumatized by them, or something. I never even heard of these potential problems before, and I don't think you should be concerned here, anyway. Hang out with her whenever you want, and don't be afraid of what seems to be a ghost story. No need to turn her off or attempt to do so. It's interesting to see how fast you are adapting to this thing, and how quickly she is becoming a constant in your life. Do keep us updated on anything interesting that happens.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 19, 2015, 07:54:09 AM
Funnily enough, I think I'd be more concerned about them knowing that I like what inspired her base form, more than the tulpa thing in general, hurrhurr.

Well, it's not incredibly smooth. Having a very hard time feeling her thia morning. Need to do some active forcing on break, I think. Most of this is still parroting anyway. I think.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 19, 2015, 11:25:23 AM
Trying to be a hair more healthily skeptical about things while maintaining constant puppetting/narration/etc today. Active forcing on lunch was rocky and full of distracting thoughts. Personality review and some visualization; will have to do another session or so later today.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 22, 2015, 09:34:18 AM
I have cut parroting completely out of my routine, and very lottle is happening now. Continuing to do 15 min forcing/day. Suspect this inadequate. Read through that depressing/worrying log made by failed tupper-er Enny and gleaned as much help from it as possible. Lots of gems in there. Stealing the suggested schedule Sands gave to him for my own use, and will be doing what I can to implement it for my own use.

Considering doing a hybrid of Fede's method and more old-school tulpa techniques- switching off every day and such. I'm just alarmed by the philosophy behind the method there- I don't want a puppet in my brain, I can do that already with abject ease. I want something more, and I want to do all those fascinating things like switching and such as well. Would extensive puppeting and parroting help with this or am I gonna lobotomize her if I do things this way?

Not too much interesting to report. Narration has been semi-consistent and last forcing session was disappointingly unfruitful. Going to start doing an hour a day total now. Hopefully that will ease progress along.

also gosh golly goodness this place is so darn dead i cant even even
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 22, 2015, 02:57:21 PM
Your tones look helpful and your method sounds helpful, but your philosophy worries me, and potential results, is all.Downloaded all that eyebo stuff, gonna try it with me second forcing session today.

First went pretty well. Visualizing, working on the adventurey part of the wonderland and all.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 22, 2015, 05:04:17 PM
Apparently I meant Eye-Bo. Damn, my eyes hurt after that. Certainly was unable to force through that level of sensory input, either. Ow.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 22, 2015, 07:27:28 PM
Two active forcing sessions done today. 30 minutes of visualization for the first, 5 minutes personality + 5 of cloudwatching + 26 of reading Game of Thrones to her for the second: 36 total. Feels good. Been 'feeding' her anything I've eaten today that isn't meat-based, trying yo narrate, etc. Plenty of work done today. Hoping it turns out to be productive.

Hey, Sands, Yogi, you two have tulpas, I want to ask- do you think it'd do me any good to throw away my parroting fears and try some of Fede's methods? Would I still be able to eventually switch/possess/etc? And what would a tulpa's opinion be on the whole deal?
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Sands on June 23, 2015, 08:34:34 AM
Can you use parroting to make a tupper? Sure. Can you use Fede's thing to make a tupper? Sure yeah, it looks like a valid method because honestly, anything is valid if you feel like it's working. All a mental thing, so you could probably make a tupper by doing anything if you were convinced you would get a tupper out of it.

Should you do it? Only you can tell. One thing I'll say is that how much you force per session isn't the limiting factor unless you find yourself finding it difficult to focus if you just do short sessions or something. The same goes for long sessions, what use is an hour long session if you only are focused for the first ten minutes or so? With short sessions, the advantage is that you can put it anywhere in your schedule and can't feel lazy. If you knew you had to get off the computer for an hour, you'll probably push that further and further away until the day is done. But if you have to do ten minutes now and ten, you'll find it much easier to just leave and go do it. Depends on what kind of a person you are and how long it takes you to get in the mood.

As for Fede's beliefs, the main thing that differs is that his definition of a tulpa is much wider than ours. He says tulpa, he means pretty much anything in your imagination no matter how separate or independent it seems. We say tulpa and we mean a thing that should feel like another person and definitely has fooled us into thinking that they really are. Despite what he says, he doesn't really seem to think that what we want out of a tulpa is impossible. Some tuppers he likes more than the host and seems to wish that they take over so the host wouldn't spend as much time in the real world, so that seems to imply to me that the tupper in question is given some kind of personhood in his eyes, as they could replace the host person. Similarly when it comes to some tuppers, they can have pretty normal conversations without Fede going on about his belief things. Many of the newer tuppers tend to get to taste his opinions, though.

And can't forget how his own tupper back in the day would do a lot of stuff on her own even if it was something Fede didn't like, like creating a wonderland when he was very against that kind of stuff and only finding out about it later. So there's some irony about the guy with the very separate-feeling tupper saying these things.
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: Alexius Aurelius on June 23, 2015, 09:02:34 PM
Well, that's a whole darn lot to reply to, and on mobile to boot. Alright... In order....

Dimmer, got it. Will it work on my phone if I hold it close to my face or do I just need to wait until I get my computer back and running?

Yes, you do have a tulpa. I wanted another's opinion; obviously you'd agree with yourself after all. Not discounting your own experience here.

And then comes the meat of it. Well. I could say a whole lot of stuff now but I feel I should just condense it and say that yes, authenticity is all I want out of this, and if some Mr Science Dude could give me concrete evidence that it was all imagination tomorrow, I'd quit tulpas entirely. Not out of anger or anything, but simply because the whole concept would in that light would thus fail to deliver what I actually want in the first place: not fun or sensory stimulation above and beyond the normal human experience, but a COMPANION.

Alright, Sands, I'll try and apply that to what I'm doing now. Small sessions where I can if big ones get derailed. Whatever works and feels like it's working above and beyond time counting. Don't fear parroting and such.

And, uh. I guess weigh everything else you said against Fede's philosphy. Which I find a bit cold and empty, not gonna lie. Last four lines there made me cringe.

And now I'm gonna just go off and try turpentine things and try not to be too spooked off the whole thing. this got entirely too cereal for something I got into for fun and feels sweet merciful goodness why
Title: Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
Post by: MegaBusta on July 02, 2015, 12:22:25 PM
Good game, Fede.