Author Topic: Collin and Stella's Journal  (Read 34484 times)

Enny

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Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2014, 11:46:14 AM »
I'm well aware how it works, Sandy. I've just never been able to properly use it, I guess. Especially in regard of memories. I've thought it was a great idea, give her a lot more understanding of me, give us more stuff to talk about, but idunno, never seems to work. Maybe I am still delusional (In a broad sense of the word), and since I can't remember anything before this morning, she can't.

But idunno, I kinda just think I'm doing it wrong. Been really convincing these last couple days, when I'm talking to her, so yeah.

Like, I tried the library thing, for one. With my petty visuals, I open a book, or a few books, in different sections, imagining what everything in every area might relate to, as far as memories go, and after I finished, tried giving her reign to read through, and I guess she /said/ she did, and I thought she did, but she's like, 95% as clueless as I am, most of the time. Dunno, might just be one of those things.

Also tried the simpler method in Kiahdaj's guide, which I liked the idea of, and more nothing. Dunno.

Symbolism is 2hard4me, apparently. And I can't really think of any methods that'd be more personal, so ehh. I'm just not a big thinker. It's either obvious and viable, or obscure and hella difficult. I'm drawing blank on something to help with the memory thing. Cause I still really want that to go somewhere.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2014, 03:16:12 PM »
Well, don't except the tulpa to have perfect memories just like you don't remember everything perfectly. That's far from what sharing memories is. What you ate for breakfast might not be any more important to her than to you, so why would she bother remembering it and stuff? Also memories can be easily faked and such...

You talk a good deal about trying symbolism made by others. Have you ever done your own? You say you can't think of any but it doesn't take a smart man to make up something that would make sense to you. It can be anything as long as it symbolizes the right thing to you. And well, the symbolism of course requires you to actually know it works. Just know that it will, because being confident and - you know it - just doing it is how you do this stuff. Symbolism would just get you in the right mindset, but if it doesn't, then it doesn't. Not everyone works well with it, but that's alright. You just need to find your own way.

And you don't have to be the one doing everything, either. The tupper can definitely do things on their own and/or help you, no need to be all passive and wait for you to do it all. Maybe she can find a better way herself, when you can't. When it comes to us, I'm definitely leaning over the "just do it" method for the most part, while that horny fellow has hammered me with some really effective symbolism in the past.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2014, 10:00:58 PM »
We tried symbolism for vocality but it hasn't worked (yet). Through head pressures I found out that I'm somehow repressing her vocality (though she doesn't know exactly how/how to fix it). Do you have any suggestions for what I should do about that?

Also, we're trying to give her a (temporary and really simple) form in our wonderland. I don't have any questions about that, but I suppose it's worth noting.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2014, 05:57:44 AM »
There could be many reasons. I guess you could really try to ask yourself what you are doing. Not enough trust? Don't you listen enough? Are you outright stopping them from speaking just like how you could force their form to not move and then wonder why you're not getting any results?

You have gotten pretty far already. I think it's safe to say that your tulpa is quite active and sapient enough for a lot of stuff, so she's going to be talking once you get over what is stopping your progress. It takes a pretty special mindset to create tulpas and as far as it comes to imagination, there's something I have noticed about hosts. There's those who have very active imaginations and can easily have their tulpa do things, but at the same time they will be hurt by intrusive thoughts and probably everything the tulpa says actually isn't the tulpa, so they need to learn how to tell real responses from fake ones early on. And others are very controlling of what goes in their imagination and while they rarely get intrusive thoughts to bother them, actually getting the tupper to move and talk might be harder because they have learned to control everything. I don't think you're either of these extremes but somewhere in the middle, possibly going towards the controller rather than the super active imagination guy.

Why I talked about that there? Well, as you probably realize, both need to learn something to be able to do well with tulpas. One needs to learn control while the other needs to learn to relax. You always need some control so you realize the power you have over your imagination, but you also need to give room for the tulpa to actually do things. You might want to think about that, in case it makes you realize something about yourself. Or something.

I know which one I was and it sure got a resourceful and stubbon tupper to help me through my control issues. And learning to listen is also a very good idea. Perhaps she can't talk, but it could also be that you can't hear her. Maybe ask her to repeat a sound or a word over and over again while you try to listen? This probably makes no sense and it made no sense to me either before I actually felt it the first time, but quieting your own thoughts while still letting ones that are coming in to be heard by you is basically what we're after. If you stop all thoughts and force your head to be quiet, then that's sort of similar to puppeting the form to stay still and still somehow expecting it to move, when it won't. Something needs to be able to come in for you to hear the tulpa, but if your own thoughts are being very loud and overbearing, you might not hear the tupper.

And early on, the voice can be very weak and quiet. Luckily you have headpressure to help you so you can ask if what you hear is actually the tulpa, so once you get the feeling for her responses, you can start to learn to listen for it better. There was a method that was basically the opposite and included making your head full of thoughts, but that sounds like it might be hard for someone to hear the tulpa from there. But hey, had worked for some, might work for you.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 07:31:19 PM »
I think I can see myself leaning towards the controlling type, so I'll try to be more open and relaxed. If I'm not sure about something I suppose I can always just ask through head pressures.

I asked her and she says it's not that I can't hear her. That said, I'll keep some of that stuff in mind as it may be helpful later on if that does become the case.

Also, I'm trying to ask her questions to figure out just how I'm repressing her vocality. I've learned a few things so far, but I'm not really sure how to go about doing this for the most part. Or should I not even bother trying to figure out by asking for the most part, and just try to change the way I think/talk to her/whatever? I dunno, I feel like this is our biggest issue right now and I don't quite know how to go about resolving it. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 10:01:26 PM by Collinbxyz »

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2014, 08:34:28 AM »
Well, it's going to be a unique issue so it's usually the best to go at it on your own, really think about it and try new things. Something about the way you're going at it is hurting you right now, so trying to change something would be a good idea. Remember that you're the one who knows what's going on in your head the best and what will work the best, so use that confidence to boost yourself over the bumps on the road.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2014, 12:07:26 PM »
Oh hey. I haven't posted here in a while. Sorry.

I was really unmotivated for a little while (which is why I didn't post here, but that was probably even more reason to do so) but I'm feeling better now. Basically I became really unconfident about her head pressures and that made me really unconfident about a lot of other stuff. Basically I can exert a head pressure myself, and I was mistaking that for her. Or something. I think I can feel a difference between her head pressures and my own, but it's fairly subtle and sometimes hard to detect. Perhaps that isn't her either, I dunno. But I think it is.

Yesterday I was occasionally feeling a really sharp head pressure that I haven't felt (much) before. If that's her and she can learn to do that on command, that would really help us with head pressure communication.

I'm sure there's more that I can add, but I'll leave it at this for now.

Enny

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Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2014, 01:26:58 PM »
Basically I can exert a head pressure myself, and I was mistaking that for her. Or something.

HA. IT'S CONTAGIOUS

But I feel you, friend. Just keep on, and chin up! You seem to have a good work ethic, so I'm sure you'll do fine if you just keep at it.

I've never heard of being able to give yourself head pressures, though. Odd. What I'm going through is more with Vocality. So a bit irritating, but what I've been doing is getting a feeling for when it's me doing whatever, opposed to Miriam, and making sure not to do that :l

Vague AF, but idunno how I'd do it with head pressures. Give em to yourself for a few minutes. On the grand total of two occasions I've gotten em, they were on the back-left of my head. My regular headaches are more on the front-side. So if yours are somewhere other than your assumed Tupper's, that's one way to figger it all up.

Jeez I'm a good advicer.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 01:31:20 PM by Enny »

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2014, 07:55:47 AM »
Here's a possible explanation for our problems (with head pressures at least).

I've noticed that generally for the head pressures I feel not what I want to feel, but rather what I expect to feel. For example, if I ask her to do a head pressure first (so I get, or at least think I'm getting, a feeling for it), then tell her to stop, but I try to convince myself that she's still doing it, I still feel the head pressure. Perhaps, to take it a step further, she's also doing the head pressures "through" me, if that makes any sense. I remember reading a while ago some stuff about parallel processing and apparently (if I understand it correctly), some tulpas need to use their host for thinking in some ways. Maybe that's similar to our problem, and she needs to do the head pressures "through" me, and thus I can recreate them as well. Or something like that. Possibly.

Of course, it may not be her in the first place, but we're trying out some more stuff to test that out. Any suggestions?

Enny

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Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2014, 11:21:26 AM »
Yeah, expectancy is a real bitch, innit.

I'd also read a lot on that aspect of processing, but I think it's case by case. When Miriam would speak, it would feel like me, so for a good while, my go-to explaination was just that she was using my head. Until I actually did figure I was being delusional and doing it myself, just trying to cover it up with the theory.

What I'd do in your case is make extra sure not to cause them yourself, even if they're running through your mind. If they're still occurring when you've identified, and gotten a handle on your own pressures, then you don't have anything to worry about.

Of course, easier said than done. Even if you do tone down your own, any that are left over are atoll liable to feel like you, so.. I'm not sure. A matter of faith, I guess. I decided it wasn't me for better or ill, I guess you'll have to go with one or another at some point.

Wouldn't recommend soon, of course. Sands always told me not to decide on anything until I was absolutely sure, so it took me a few months, but it honestly doesn't sound like, aside from some sketchy Head Pressures, you're doing only anything that would cause harm, so idunno, your call.

Again, really bad advicerer.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 06:16:35 PM »
Ugh. I think I'll play it safe for now and I won't assume the head pressures are her. I guess I'll just continue forcing with her until she's vocal.

Also, I'm/we're starting to try out some meditation as well. I guess there's not a whole lot to say about that, but it seems like it's helping with focus somewhat.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2014, 05:05:59 AM »
You know what they say about assuming. Making decisions before you are absolutely 100% sure does nothing but bite you in the ass later on, whether it's blindly believing or calling it parroting. Whatever you do, don't ignore. If something happens that might be a response, listen to it. You might even use it as narration fuel in case it was a response to something like "what would you like to do". You don't have to treat it like it is actually the tupper before you feel comfortable with that, but it's not going to get you anywhere if you get the habit of treating everything like it's not the tupper. That seems to be one of the big reasons why people have a lot of trouble, as far as I see. And it's one of those things Enny himself has trouble with.

The only thing you can be sure is that you think you heard or felt a response of some sort. Where it came from requires a skill you probably don't have yet to know. And I dunno, in my eyes it's pretty silly to make decisions based on something you are either bad at or have no skill at all, tuppers or not.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 07:36:59 PM »

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 08:34:29 AM »
I'd suggest you to make a book thread in off-topic. Nothing to be afraid of there.

Re: Collin and Stella's Journal
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2014, 08:45:54 PM »
Do you think it'd be worthwhile to make her a temporary and very simple form? I would just like something that would allow us to interact more in our wonderland.