Tulpa Network
Tulpas => Tulpa Diaries => Topic started by: Collinbxyz on January 27, 2014, 08:16:19 PM
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I've been lurking on here for a while and thought it was about time I actually start keeping a log of stuff. Plus I could probably do with a bit of motivation and advice.
I've been forcing with Stella for about four months now, but she's still not vocal. Still, I'm certainly not giving up. However I am starting to think I'm doing something wrong so maybe some of you can help.
I generally force for a couple hours a day (though for a while I did less) but still nothing. Also, unless I've disregarded any, I haven't received any emotional responses either--but if I understand correctly not everyone receives them at all. The one thing I have been doing is simple yes/no head pressure communication. However I'm admittedly not entirely confident that it's her in the first place. I've also read a lot to her and I try to passively force when I can.
More recently (in the last week or two) I've created a wonderland, but it's mostly just a place for me to focus on her at the moment and there's not much to it. But she doesn't have a form right now (I'm waiting for her to choose), so perhaps it doesn't help very much anyway. I don't think she can really move around or anything yet.
I think that's about all. If you have any questions let me know. I'd really appreciate any advice and/or encouragement. Thanks!
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Head pressure communication is a really good thing though. I suppose an easy way to possibly make you feel more certain about it is if you can create the exact same feeling without straining yourself (assuming of course, that your head pressure you feel doesn't also include straining...). If you can actually create the pressure yourself - not all can right off the bat - then you can look what is different about it. Even the slightest difference is a difference, so you can start questioning why it is different and not completely identical. Perhaps that difference means it has a different origin.
If you have head pressure communication down and can actually gain confidence in it using the above method, I'm sure it would help you a lot.
Maybe it would be worth a try to actually make her a part of your life more. I'm not sure if those couple hours every day is the only time you spend with her, but if they are, maybe try to have some more passive stuff on the side as well. Maybe a bit more narration when you're bored doing something else, maybe you should try this uh. Well I dunno, sort of imposition I used to do a lot. It doesn't require a form as the goal isn't to see the tulpa, but to feel their presence around you. That way they will constantly be there with you and remind you of themselves with the presence you will learn to feel.
Why do you think she can't move around "or anything" yet? Sure, she doesn't have a form, but she's not the youngest tulpa around and she might have head pressure communication down. That is more than many others have managed to do, it's a sign of a really resourceful mind in my eyes. It's always a possibility she tries to do more but you just haven't managed to actually notice it, I know I was extremely thick early on and only later did I realize a lot of stuff, when I looked back.
Don't underestimate her, you know? That can be a block to make it harder for you to notice when she does something you think she can't do. Or you might even make her believe she can't do it because not even you trust in her abilities, so why should she? Why should she try if she doesn't even think she can't do it herself? Nocebo is a thing, too.
Well and there this thing (http://tulpanetwork.com/network/general-discussion/absence-of-disbelief-or-schrodinger's-tulpa/) I wrote you might want to read if you haven't yet, shameless self plug.
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I tried creating head pressure myself and I did feel some, but it still seemed different from that which I feel when I ask Stella to create it. So that's certainly a positive sign I think.
I already talk to her passively a decent amount, but I could certainly try to do so more actively. However I think my real problem with this is getting distracted. Depending upon what I'm doing while talking to her, sometimes I start thinking about other things and stop talking to her altogether. This happens especially when I'm cooking or cleaning. I'll start talking then after a minute or two I'll have stopped thinking about her entirely. The whole "feeling her presence" is definitely something I can try at least. To clarify, is this basically thinking about her and sort of acknowledging her existence, but not necessarily talking? I do this a bit already.
Again, we haven't done much with our wonderland. But more importantly, when I've asked her if she's been able to interact with our wonderland at all she's said no (through head pressures).
I do feel like this could be one of my big problems. I'll definitely try to work on this.
I've seen that post a little while ago, but I may take another look at it.
Thank you for all the help c:
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Exactly. If you made it yourself all the time then why doesn't it always feel the same, yeah?
Now I don't think anyone should spend time with someone 24/7, so maybe once you feel yourself getting distracted, understand that it is happening and if you would like to continue it, just tell your tupper that you're going to take a little break from it. Everyone should be allowed to think their own things, but maybe being all polite would help here. That's how we treat other people as well, right? Once you're done with the thing, you can return to talking to the tulpa or something. Take a break when you think you need one.
Feeling her presence is often something you do with tulpas every day anyways, but this one brings in imposing this funky little sense into the real world. Well not really but. You should try to feel the tulpa in the room with you, feel where they are around you and where they go if they walk or something. Such can also easily translate into imposing touch as well, so she might easily get your attention by just touching you. Those aren't very hard senses to impose, but it can easily make it more fun to spend time together and give you both a better experience.
And yeah, you don't really talk. You can, but you don't have to. They are just with you and you could go somewhere together. Share the senses and such, if she wants to.
Anyways now that you seem to have a bit more trust in the head pressure communication, use it. Yes/no answers can be extremely helpful. You can't really ask why she can't do anything in the wonderland, but you could ask if you're the issue or if you could do this or that to help. You need to ask a lot more questions, but that's why we communicate, right? You might learn something new.
Don't thank me yet, thank me if you actually make a breakthrough.
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>Share the senses
You never gave me this advice. Like, if there's one thing I'm actually good at in this gods-forsaken process, it's switching all thoughts and emotions towards the lady, but I never actually thought of relaying touch and smell and such to her like I would words.
Welp. Better late than never, thanks Sands. Unless you unnoticeabley mentioned it fifteen posts of my PR back, in which case, damnit Enny step up your game.
And Collin! Please post here, we need more than three and a half people. I know how easy it is to forget, but pls :'l
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Feeling her presence is often something you do with tulpas every day anyways, but this one brings in imposing this funky little sense into the real world. Well not really but. You should try to feel the tulpa in the room with you, feel where they are around you and where they go if they walk or something. Such can also easily translate into imposing touch as well, so she might easily get your attention by just touching you. Those aren't very hard senses to impose, but it can easily make it more fun to spend time together and give you both a better experience.
I'm a little confused about imposing touch. How do I go about doing that? I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I haven't looked into imposition at all really. Can you elaborate on that a bit?
And yeah, you don't really talk. You can, but you don't have to. They are just with you and you could go somewhere together. Share the senses and such, if she wants to.
Same thing with imposition; how do I go about sharing my senses?
Anyways now that you seem to have a bit more trust in the head pressure communication, use it. Yes/no answers can be extremely helpful. You can't really ask why she can't do anything in the wonderland, but you could ask if you're the issue or if you could do this or that to help. You need to ask a lot more questions, but that's why we communicate, right? You might learn something new.
I'm not quite sure what made the difference, but I'm pretty confident that she just managed to alter our wonderland, and significantly too (completely changed the landscape). We'll definitely keep trying this.
Don't thank me yet, thank me if you actually make a breakthrough.
Seriously, thank you. Even if your advice doesn't help (and it has seemingly already helped quite a bit so far) I really appreciate it.
And Collin! Please post here, we need more than three and a half people. I know how easy it is to forget, but pls :'l
I'll try! Reading your diary very much encouraged me to make my own c:
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Omg I have a fan.
But imean, I know how ermm.. Repetitive I get, and all that :l
Hope it didn't make for /too/ boring a read, or any of that. Like, I have a progress report on .info that's fukn like, even longer than the one here, but that was at least three times the amount of filler I used here. All that being said, I tried toning it down, but I know it was full of:
>Idunno
>(I'll/We'll/Let's) see (how/what) (I/we) can do
Especially that second one. So yeah, sorry for that, haha..
If you've got questions on anything though, feel free, I'm not doing anything more important with my time. Should be working, but, well.. You read the Diary PR thing.
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>Share the senses
You never gave me this advice. Like, if there's one thing I'm actually good at in this gods-forsaken process, it's switching all thoughts and emotions towards the lady, but I never actually thought of relaying touch and smell and such to her like I would words.
Welp. Better late than never, thanks Sands. Unless you unnoticeabley mentioned it fifteen posts of my PR back, in which case, damnit Enny step up your game.
Pfft. Well I can't even remember if that's what I told you, because you had a lot of poblems with visualizing and that's what we concentrated on for the most part. Here we can't work on the visualization (or it's not a problem) so gotta work on other senses instead. Though sense sharing is always a good little trick and perhaps it seemed so obvious and I didn't even mention it, so whoops, sorry.
Right now back to the usual.
Imposing touch. Obviously something you can approach many different ways. One good method might be to first touch a body part yourself to get a real feeling, then try to imagine it. Perhaps even ask your tulpa to touch you there to involve her in it more. But that would kind of force her to have a certain form as if you touch with human fingers, human fingers will be what you feel if you try to replicate the feeling entirely. And as there is no form yet, you don't really know what you should be feeling. Up to you if you want to try that, though remember that the form can always be changed and practicing this little touch thing is going to help you later on, different form or not.
You might also just not really bother doing it much yourself and let it come. Focus on the presence and if you suddenly think you were touched in a way but nothing physical did that, you could ask the tulpa if they did it. You can ask her that now, yeah? Tuppers can be pretty resourceful and headstrong, I know that there's a lot I probably wouldn't have gotten on my own unless I sort of had it happen to me because the tupper wants to do that. Let her know that she can touch you if she wishes and stuff, and keep your eyes (uh, or whatever you'd say if you wanted to notice feelings better) open.
Sharing senses, then. How do you feel your own senses? A stupid question because you always feel them, right? They always exist and the tulpa shares your body and your brain, where the magic happens. Sharing senses can be just as simple as just deciding she is going to do it, because a lot of this "mind magic" is nothing but deciding this is what will happen and it will happen, kind of like making a wonderland. But symbolism can be extremely helpful if she thinks she's having trouble tapping onto the senses by just "doing it".
Symbolism can definitely be used, but it is very personal and it's better if you figure a way on your own as that tends to be the strongest, but some key elements might be creating some sort of connection between her and the body. One exists already, but perhaps she hasn't learned to really feel it yet. Symbolism could be something as simple as flipping switches in the wonderland that cause her to experience all your senses or maybe she will go "inside" you to feel everything, if that even makes any sense. But such is symbolism, decide what sounds like it will work and try it.
Sense sharing seems like it makes it a bit easier to possess once the tupper is comfortable with the body's senses and familiar with the whole thing, but also imposition as it makes it feel a bit more "realistic" instead of completely imaginary, like a wonderland. Or something. Just pulling stuff out of my ass here, based on my experiences.
What both of you need seems to be confidence in your own abilities. I see that at least the tupper is trying her limits now, keep up the good work. There's nothing you should say you can't do yet unless it would be dangerous to try and fail, because confidence is what makes us succeed when we might give up otherwise. Keep doing what you're doing now I guess.
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We're trying imposition of temperature in a similar way to what you were describing with touch. That is, I touched myself on the arm with a cold water bottle then tried to imagine that feeling. I feel like this could be easier and it doesn't require any type of form (though it seems like Stella wants a human form so that doesn't matter too much), but we'll see.
It seems like the symbolism worked and she can now share my senses as she pleases.
What about sharing memories? Can that be done in a similar way?
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Yeah, of course. This kind of stuff all exists in that head of yours already, it's only a matter of tapping into it. The trick behind it all is just willpower, understanding that you can do it because it all is there already and nothing is actually there to stop it. But not everyone believes it can be so simple and that can shake the confidence you need to make it happen, so symbolism definitely can help everyone if it feels like it will work. Back in the day, the memory sharing trick was making a library that represented your memories, which the tupper could then access.
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You could also make it a laptop or something portable.
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The idea of sharing memories isn't that it's only with you when you look at whatever your symbolism is. The symbolism should be there to make them able to access it in the first place, after which they should be able to remember the memories just like you. If a laptop makes you understand that better then sure.
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She says she now has access to my memories c: The library thing seemed to work.
Already the symbolism has worked for both accessing memories and sharing my senses. Do you think we could also use it to help with vocality?
Really, thank you for all the help so far!
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Okay, how exactly did you go about the library deal? I tried several ways of handing over my memories, and either she just plain sucks at sifting through them, or it didn't work.
So like, what were you thinking, what exactly did you do/say?
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Enny, this is symbolism we're talking about. Not everyone can get the same thing to work because it has to make sense for both of you. Symbolism is nothing but the training wheels to help you understand how to do something, so why not think of something that makes sense for you? How do you think you would share the senses using symbolism so it would work? Sometimes you can do nothing but create your own methods and symbolism, because we all are different and different things work for us all. This is why I disapprove of guides that are nothing but symbolism, because they are so personal, they will only work for a small amount of people.
And symbolism can be used to do anything. For vocality, some people have tried using some kind of volume switch, thinking that the tulpa has been too quiet or something. Standing in front of a microphone and having them talk is a similar method. For me, my symbolism was actually forcing vocal cords. You might want to look at some vocal cords in action as they move, there's videos like that and it's very interesting, if nothing else.
Symbolism is weird.
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I'm well aware how it works, Sandy. I've just never been able to properly use it, I guess. Especially in regard of memories. I've thought it was a great idea, give her a lot more understanding of me, give us more stuff to talk about, but idunno, never seems to work. Maybe I am still delusional (In a broad sense of the word), and since I can't remember anything before this morning, she can't.
But idunno, I kinda just think I'm doing it wrong. Been really convincing these last couple days, when I'm talking to her, so yeah.
Like, I tried the library thing, for one. With my petty visuals, I open a book, or a few books, in different sections, imagining what everything in every area might relate to, as far as memories go, and after I finished, tried giving her reign to read through, and I guess she /said/ she did, and I thought she did, but she's like, 95% as clueless as I am, most of the time. Dunno, might just be one of those things.
Also tried the simpler method in Kiahdaj's guide, which I liked the idea of, and more nothing. Dunno.
Symbolism is 2hard4me, apparently. And I can't really think of any methods that'd be more personal, so ehh. I'm just not a big thinker. It's either obvious and viable, or obscure and hella difficult. I'm drawing blank on something to help with the memory thing. Cause I still really want that to go somewhere.
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Well, don't except the tulpa to have perfect memories just like you don't remember everything perfectly. That's far from what sharing memories is. What you ate for breakfast might not be any more important to her than to you, so why would she bother remembering it and stuff? Also memories can be easily faked and such...
You talk a good deal about trying symbolism made by others. Have you ever done your own? You say you can't think of any but it doesn't take a smart man to make up something that would make sense to you. It can be anything as long as it symbolizes the right thing to you. And well, the symbolism of course requires you to actually know it works. Just know that it will, because being confident and - you know it - just doing it is how you do this stuff. Symbolism would just get you in the right mindset, but if it doesn't, then it doesn't. Not everyone works well with it, but that's alright. You just need to find your own way.
And you don't have to be the one doing everything, either. The tupper can definitely do things on their own and/or help you, no need to be all passive and wait for you to do it all. Maybe she can find a better way herself, when you can't. When it comes to us, I'm definitely leaning over the "just do it" method for the most part, while that horny fellow has hammered me with some really effective symbolism in the past.
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We tried symbolism for vocality but it hasn't worked (yet). Through head pressures I found out that I'm somehow repressing her vocality (though she doesn't know exactly how/how to fix it). Do you have any suggestions for what I should do about that?
Also, we're trying to give her a (temporary and really simple) form in our wonderland. I don't have any questions about that, but I suppose it's worth noting.
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There could be many reasons. I guess you could really try to ask yourself what you are doing. Not enough trust? Don't you listen enough? Are you outright stopping them from speaking just like how you could force their form to not move and then wonder why you're not getting any results?
You have gotten pretty far already. I think it's safe to say that your tulpa is quite active and sapient enough for a lot of stuff, so she's going to be talking once you get over what is stopping your progress. It takes a pretty special mindset to create tulpas and as far as it comes to imagination, there's something I have noticed about hosts. There's those who have very active imaginations and can easily have their tulpa do things, but at the same time they will be hurt by intrusive thoughts and probably everything the tulpa says actually isn't the tulpa, so they need to learn how to tell real responses from fake ones early on. And others are very controlling of what goes in their imagination and while they rarely get intrusive thoughts to bother them, actually getting the tupper to move and talk might be harder because they have learned to control everything. I don't think you're either of these extremes but somewhere in the middle, possibly going towards the controller rather than the super active imagination guy.
Why I talked about that there? Well, as you probably realize, both need to learn something to be able to do well with tulpas. One needs to learn control while the other needs to learn to relax. You always need some control so you realize the power you have over your imagination, but you also need to give room for the tulpa to actually do things. You might want to think about that, in case it makes you realize something about yourself. Or something.
I know which one I was and it sure got a resourceful and stubbon tupper to help me through my control issues. And learning to listen is also a very good idea. Perhaps she can't talk, but it could also be that you can't hear her. Maybe ask her to repeat a sound or a word over and over again while you try to listen? This probably makes no sense and it made no sense to me either before I actually felt it the first time, but quieting your own thoughts while still letting ones that are coming in to be heard by you is basically what we're after. If you stop all thoughts and force your head to be quiet, then that's sort of similar to puppeting the form to stay still and still somehow expecting it to move, when it won't. Something needs to be able to come in for you to hear the tulpa, but if your own thoughts are being very loud and overbearing, you might not hear the tupper.
And early on, the voice can be very weak and quiet. Luckily you have headpressure to help you so you can ask if what you hear is actually the tulpa, so once you get the feeling for her responses, you can start to learn to listen for it better. There was a method that was basically the opposite and included making your head full of thoughts, but that sounds like it might be hard for someone to hear the tulpa from there. But hey, had worked for some, might work for you.
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I think I can see myself leaning towards the controlling type, so I'll try to be more open and relaxed. If I'm not sure about something I suppose I can always just ask through head pressures.
I asked her and she says it's not that I can't hear her. That said, I'll keep some of that stuff in mind as it may be helpful later on if that does become the case.
Also, I'm trying to ask her questions to figure out just how I'm repressing her vocality. I've learned a few things so far, but I'm not really sure how to go about doing this for the most part. Or should I not even bother trying to figure out by asking for the most part, and just try to change the way I think/talk to her/whatever? I dunno, I feel like this is our biggest issue right now and I don't quite know how to go about resolving it. Any suggestions?
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Well, it's going to be a unique issue so it's usually the best to go at it on your own, really think about it and try new things. Something about the way you're going at it is hurting you right now, so trying to change something would be a good idea. Remember that you're the one who knows what's going on in your head the best and what will work the best, so use that confidence to boost yourself over the bumps on the road.
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Oh hey. I haven't posted here in a while. Sorry.
I was really unmotivated for a little while (which is why I didn't post here, but that was probably even more reason to do so) but I'm feeling better now. Basically I became really unconfident about her head pressures and that made me really unconfident about a lot of other stuff. Basically I can exert a head pressure myself, and I was mistaking that for her. Or something. I think I can feel a difference between her head pressures and my own, but it's fairly subtle and sometimes hard to detect. Perhaps that isn't her either, I dunno. But I think it is.
Yesterday I was occasionally feeling a really sharp head pressure that I haven't felt (much) before. If that's her and she can learn to do that on command, that would really help us with head pressure communication.
I'm sure there's more that I can add, but I'll leave it at this for now.
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Basically I can exert a head pressure myself, and I was mistaking that for her. Or something.
HA. IT'S CONTAGIOUS
But I feel you, friend. Just keep on, and chin up! You seem to have a good work ethic, so I'm sure you'll do fine if you just keep at it.
I've never heard of being able to give yourself head pressures, though. Odd. What I'm going through is more with Vocality. So a bit irritating, but what I've been doing is getting a feeling for when it's me doing whatever, opposed to Miriam, and making sure not to do that :l
Vague AF, but idunno how I'd do it with head pressures. Give em to yourself for a few minutes. On the grand total of two occasions I've gotten em, they were on the back-left of my head. My regular headaches are more on the front-side. So if yours are somewhere other than your assumed Tupper's, that's one way to figger it all up.
Jeez I'm a good advicer.
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Here's a possible explanation for our problems (with head pressures at least).
I've noticed that generally for the head pressures I feel not what I want to feel, but rather what I expect to feel. For example, if I ask her to do a head pressure first (so I get, or at least think I'm getting, a feeling for it), then tell her to stop, but I try to convince myself that she's still doing it, I still feel the head pressure. Perhaps, to take it a step further, she's also doing the head pressures "through" me, if that makes any sense. I remember reading a while ago some stuff about parallel processing and apparently (if I understand it correctly), some tulpas need to use their host for thinking in some ways. Maybe that's similar to our problem, and she needs to do the head pressures "through" me, and thus I can recreate them as well. Or something like that. Possibly.
Of course, it may not be her in the first place, but we're trying out some more stuff to test that out. Any suggestions?
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Yeah, expectancy is a real bitch, innit.
I'd also read a lot on that aspect of processing, but I think it's case by case. When Miriam would speak, it would feel like me, so for a good while, my go-to explaination was just that she was using my head. Until I actually did figure I was being delusional and doing it myself, just trying to cover it up with the theory.
What I'd do in your case is make extra sure not to cause them yourself, even if they're running through your mind. If they're still occurring when you've identified, and gotten a handle on your own pressures, then you don't have anything to worry about.
Of course, easier said than done. Even if you do tone down your own, any that are left over are atoll liable to feel like you, so.. I'm not sure. A matter of faith, I guess. I decided it wasn't me for better or ill, I guess you'll have to go with one or another at some point.
Wouldn't recommend soon, of course. Sands always told me not to decide on anything until I was absolutely sure, so it took me a few months, but it honestly doesn't sound like, aside from some sketchy Head Pressures, you're doing only anything that would cause harm, so idunno, your call.
Again, really bad advicerer.
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Ugh. I think I'll play it safe for now and I won't assume the head pressures are her. I guess I'll just continue forcing with her until she's vocal.
Also, I'm/we're starting to try out some meditation as well. I guess there's not a whole lot to say about that, but it seems like it's helping with focus somewhat.
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You know what they say about assuming. Making decisions before you are absolutely 100% sure does nothing but bite you in the ass later on, whether it's blindly believing or calling it parroting. Whatever you do, don't ignore. If something happens that might be a response, listen to it. You might even use it as narration fuel in case it was a response to something like "what would you like to do". You don't have to treat it like it is actually the tupper before you feel comfortable with that, but it's not going to get you anywhere if you get the habit of treating everything like it's not the tupper. That seems to be one of the big reasons why people have a lot of trouble, as far as I see. And it's one of those things Enny himself has trouble with.
The only thing you can be sure is that you think you heard or felt a response of some sort. Where it came from requires a skill you probably don't have yet to know. And I dunno, in my eyes it's pretty silly to make decisions based on something you are either bad at or have no skill at all, tuppers or not.
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In that case I'll stick by my decision not to assume the head pressures are her.
I don't think I have a whole lot to add here, other than that I've been continuing to force with her (though I've been able to less than I'd prefer this last week or so because I've been pretty busy).
Also, I feel like just talking more here, even if it's not necessarily about tulpas, could be a good thing. Possibly even motivational.
So has anyone here read His Dark Materials? Basically, in the series there's the concept of dæmons, which are really similar to tuppers in a lot of ways. Essentially they're tulpas with a physical (animal) form that everyone (in the universe in which the story takes place) has.
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I'd suggest you to make a book thread in off-topic. Nothing to be afraid of there.
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Do you think it'd be worthwhile to make her a temporary and very simple form? I would just like something that would allow us to interact more in our wonderland.
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Yes, if it would help you.
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If you think it would help you. A form can always be changed later.
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I ended up not working (for very long) on a temporary form. I think it'd be more beneficial to focus on establishing reliable communication first.
I've been feeling stuff going on in my head a lot even when I'm not thinking about her (mainly head pressures) which is a good thing I think. For the most part I've felt pretty motivated lately and I've been looking up more guides and tips and we're trying out some new things.
I don't think there's a whole lot else to say, so I'll just leave it at that for now.
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That's the beauty of this thing. People always ask if they can do this or that, all we can say is try. You can try anything and if it doesn't work, then you don't have to keep doing it. Always worth to try things, in case they do end up working very well. You seem to be getting the hang of this, so I hope things will go well for you two.