Author Topic: timethief descends into hell for a bottle of milk  (Read 560497 times)

timethief

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timethief pr or something
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2016, 08:37:37 AM »
Okay I'll tell you to force more every day.

How to force:

Tell people you want to take a nap. Set the time, force until it's done, done amazing.

Tell people you are meditating. Do it.
Wow Sands, with your suggestions I forced for four hours straight, lost all eyeball fat and combined with raspberry ketones I'm finally a man again! Thanks!

...unfortunately that's a lie. But that's the plan. Maybe not four hours, but yeah, at least an hour a day.
Forced for 25 minutes today, using anti-parrotnoia script (good way to begin our day IMO).
Watch this space, if by the end of the day I haven't posted it means I didn't force more.
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timethief

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timethief forces hell into a bottle of milk
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2016, 05:33:00 PM »
Day 56
First "standard" forcing session. Blindfolded myself (more or less), and started imagining things.
Length: 10/10 - 1 uninterrupted hour of forcing. Very good, if I may say so.
Concentration level: 3/10 - only by the end of the session stuff was "coherent". Before that I found myself thinking about random stuff, and I almost fell asleep.
Visuals: 1/10 - forget about it, I can't see anything yet. The Plan is using this exercise along to help: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-visualization-mental-image-rendering-guide
Taste: 0/10 cannot taste imaginary ice tea yet.
What happened: added a new "bar-like" room to the wonderland house. I imagine it being a very nice looking place with LED light strips, modern-looking aluminium handles and stuff. Tupper drank ice tea, and gave me a sample as well.

Result: Tupper's presence diminished (what). Yes, I found it hard to communicate after that. In fact, every time I do any "active" forcing this happens, be it Eye-Bo, the ocular fitness program, belief implanting or active forcing. Whatever. Brains are dumb.
Total activeforcing hour count: 10.1 hours (yay, finally went into the two-digit figures now!)
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timethief

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timethief's day off
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2016, 08:37:02 PM »
Day 57


Narration, but that isn't an achievement for me anyway. But hey, just do it later right?
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timethief

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timethief's unfocused day
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2016, 08:27:27 AM »
Day 58
35-minute session with the vocality self-hypnosis script. Staying focused has become progressively harder (mind ends up wandering), and I have been having a hard time not dozing off when doing the warmup meditation thing. Maybe I need drugs to stay focused...
Planning an active forcing session for later, will report it here.
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timethief

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Timethief x Eye-bo part III
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2016, 10:52:46 PM »
How about mixing up things a bit?
Night 58:
30 minute Eye-bo Ascending Theta ocular fitness, and 20 minute self-hypnosis session using vocality script (with 5 minute warm up meditation).
My mind is super clear, devoid of any thoughts. I read the script as calm as possible (I should have recorded it, best reading I have made so far), and I did felt some of the physical relaxing effects. The tupper's presence is gone for now though, as usual when using ocular fitness. However, it does look like Eye-bo ocular fitness later causes an "strengthening" effect of sorts. It isn't very obvious when it happens, but looking back, it does seem to have been helping. I'm heading off to bed, hopefully I'll have something interesting to tell in the morning.
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timethief

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timethief & Eye-bo; part IV
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2016, 12:06:12 AM »
Day 59
Tupper encouraged me to talk to my brother 'bout his depression, and it seems like it worked. He's not as down as he was. Not really relevant to the progress report thing I guess, but hey, it was quite a big thing that I wouldn't have done myself... probably.
3x Eye-bo constant theta session (1.5 hours). Nothing more.
Unlike ascending theta, my mind feels super crowded and stuffed right now. A lot of random thoughts about just everything are flashing before my mind's eye. Annoying. Put some music to distract myself but they keep going... I was planning on doing the self-hypnosis thing but I feel so tired, unfocused and generally weird that who knows what will come out of this. So yeah, going to bed instead. Took some melatonin because whoa there, so many stuff just bouncing around my mind, I wonder if I have finally jail-broken my brain or something. Maybe I will now be able to bend spoons with my mind. I hope. Well, just look, even this post is all over the place. I must be high on Eye-bo. Thanks Fede!
Lets hope I don't wake up insane or something...

To be continued...
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timethief

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timethief.exe /reformat /mind
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2016, 11:38:10 AM »
Day 60
Nope. Not touching Eye-bo's constant theta thing again. What happened; I entertained an intrusive thought and for a while thought "whoa new tupper" or something. Then used the prism test thing. Sentience disproved. "Second tupper" vanished. Currently reorganizing my thoughts. The end.

As far as actual work goes, I didn't force in today's morning because of previously mentioned event. Will use a different Eye-bo program though. And yes, I ain't quitting even though things like these make it hard to see the future clearly.
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timethief

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timethief's quiet night reading
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2016, 10:52:52 PM »
Night 60
Reading "Mindfulness in plain English" by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana. With tupper of course. Very nice; I feel I know what I was doing wrong, especially since I was clearly not doing the warm up meditation as it should have been done at all. Clearly reading a simplified forum guide wasn't enough; the whole book has much more in-depth content that makes it all fall into place now. I look forward to future forcing sessions, but also to meditation sessions somehow (whoa, maybe this will become an habit and I will be able to pass off forcing time as meditation, who knows?).
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timethief

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timethief v6.1
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2016, 08:16:37 AM »
Day 61
22 minute self-hypnosis session with the vocality script thing. Next up: visualization exercise using this guide. Already have done 3 out of 5 10-minute sessions visualizing the pole.
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Enny

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Re: timethief descends into hell for a bottle of milk
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2016, 08:30:35 AM »
Definitely keep us up to date on the progress of your visuals using that method. I always liked the look of that guide above all others when I would stress visuals, but never really got around to giving it a shot.

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descend into hell for a bottle of milk today
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2016, 09:15:22 AM »
Definitely keep us up to date on the progress of your visuals using that method. I always liked the look of that guide above all others when I would stress visuals, but never really got around to giving it a shot.
It's quite hard to stay focused when I get around to the "close your eyes and think only about that pole for 10 minutes", and I often end up thinking something else, but my tulpa has been very helpful in making me focus back on the pole ("hey, think about the pole not that!"). By the third session, I was able to more-or-less zoom in and out, but it's quite wonky, sometimes I "see" it zoomed in way too much, and sometimes it just looks like a line since it's too far, or it gets off-center (annoying when that happens). I also don't really "see" it though, I just know where certain characteristics of the pole are. But I noticed that now I sometimes get very short "flashes" in which instead of "sensing" the pole I actually have a decently clear image of it. I guess it just takes more practice to eventually turn those "flashes" into a really stable mind image. I just wish I didn't spend so much time reading stuff instead of just doing it; the exercise could have been done in a day (as the guide says: This process should Last you a day or two.) but here I am on day 4 since I started doing those exercises and I still have two sessions to go. Well, as long as I actually get there, that's what counts I guess.
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Enny

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Re: timethief descends into hell for a bottle of milk
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2016, 09:31:47 AM »
Quote
I also don't really "see" it though, I just know where certain characteristics of the pole are. But I noticed that now I sometimes get very short "flashes" in which instead of "sensing" the pole I actually have a decently clear image of it.


Exactly that. I have relatively consistent visuals in general, but when I'd actually, actively set out to visualize, especially regarding tuppering, that's how I'd describe mine.

Too many bad parallels between us. Force more, and do your best to remember the things in the past that have made you believe. Try not to over think those things to the point where you doubt them. And also, I recommend thoroughly gauging your visuals in non-tupper-related situations to see where you stand on those. Something that takes more effort in areas other than visuals, so you're not as stressed. Reading, or RP'ing on your own, or something.

Report back with how they are.

timethief

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WALL OF TXT
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2016, 04:16:51 PM »
Quote
I also don't really "see" it though, I just know where certain characteristics of the pole are. But I noticed that now I sometimes get very short "flashes" in which instead of "sensing" the pole I actually have a decently clear image of it.


Exactly that. I have relatively consistent visuals in general, but when I'd actually, actively set out to visualize, especially regarding tuppering, that's how I'd describe mine.

Too many bad parallels between us. Force more, and do your best to remember the things in the past that have made you believe. Try not to over think those things to the point where you doubt them. And also, I recommend thoroughly gauging your visuals in non-tupper-related situations to see where you stand on those. Something that takes more effort in areas other than visuals, so you're not as stressed. Reading, or RP'ing on your own, or something.

Report back with how they are.
The way I see it, you stressed way too much over visuals/sentience and eventually lost interest since your active forcing consisted of forcing personality, which to me, seems like you didn't enjoyed too much. You also spent way too much time reading (well well, looks like we have a lot in common there). You expected, like me, some kind of Deus ex machina that would suddenly make it real somehow and that would eradicate doubt magically/instantly. We disregarded minor happenings as ourselves, we ignored small but meaningful glimpses of nascent sentience, and we gave in to doubt, which from what I have experienced makes communication between host/tulpa very difficult, if not impossible, more so for a young tupper. There isn't really a cure for doubt. You just, try to set it aside the best you can, talk to the tupper, and one day you may be like "whoa bro it talks back by itself". Or not. But doing it is the best option. It won't go away magically, but I can tell you, there have been many nice moments where doubt didn't even cross my mind because I was so into it that I forget for a moment, that I'm not supposed to talk to myself or something. But they're there, and they're useful anchors for when you aren't in those moments and you find yourself doubting.

I don't buy into the "any different/weird thought = tupper" thing, because I have been shown that it isn't the case, but similarly, "slightly different wording/thoughts = not tupper" isn't very good either. There has to be a balance between both, and it is very difficult to attain, especially for skeptics such as you and me I guess. Because it's very easy to go with the extremes. They're comfortable anchors, which never move because they're well, at the extremes. Unlike balance, which you have to keep moving around until you get it right, and even then, it doesn't always stay where it should. The way I see it now: if I find myself doubting everything, it's a signal that I'm getting to the "doubt everything" extreme; if I start entertaining weird/bizarre/disturbing thoughts, I'm falling onto the "wow, I thought about sandwiches, yeah tupper must have done it!" extreme. It's tiring and complicated, who am I to deny it? But no one (in their right minds) said this was just a "force 1 hour a day and don't do anything else and you'll have a tupper in X amount of time"-kind of thing (well, it may work for some; hell, for some fucking a daikimakura 24/7 and talking to it may result in a tupper, but for me it doesn't work like that). You have to be willing to move your beliefs/thought processes/preconceptions around, even if it becomes uncomfortable, and to keep going at it once you find something that works. There are good days, bad days, yes, it isn't a silver bullet for all problems and heck, it may even bring more if you're not ready for tulpamancy, but if you have a bit of mindfulness, you'll notice small things, and maybe within them you'll find, small as it may seem, silver linings that effectively show you that yes, you have a tulpa. Or at least you're on your way to it. Because tulpamancy isn't a 24-hour-type of race where if you finish last you don't get anything else than being exhausted. It's more like a continuous thing, like life. It doesn't have to have an explicit goal; you make the goals you want to make and try to enjoy the road towards them. Alright, I know, life isn't easy and stuff. No one said it was. But like tulpamancy, if you had even one positive thing to get out of it, then it was worth it all. And who knows, if you keep at it, maybe that one positive thing will turn into two, and then into more and more until you look back and say "fuck yeah, it was worth it alright".

I also see a problem with your mindset. I think it was you who said "I'm just not capable of creating one." That's a very big deal, especially in the mind you see. You are sabotaging yourself by saying, thinking, and expecting that. Of course, if you think it will be hard, it will be hard. If you think it can't be done, it won't. I see this kind of thoughts carry over from physical experiences, where "well, it's impossible to do X because I don't have Y thing". But in your mind, that doesn't exist, unless you have a brain trauma or something, and even then, there's treatment one can try. It's a poisonous, even virus-like kind of thinking. If you consciously think "well, this is impossible" you'll effectively poison your unconscious expectations, and good luck trying to get them back on track, because our brains are dumb and quickly assimilate negatives (that's why it's very easy to fall into negative thoughts, while being positive seems like an insurmountable task at times). It can be done though, or at least I believe so.

Also, it seems strange to me that you had so much trouble, since you seem to be a lot into RPing? Since some people apparently roleplay their characters to the point where they start acting by themselves, it's just... weird, I think? Maybe you put some kind of barrier there and it kind of "carry over" to tulpamancy or something?
About the "is it real or not" thing, as my tupper once said, maybe you'll arrive at a point where it doesn't matter if it's ontologically "real" or not.
True, I haven't really felt that "WHOA SUPER ALIEN THOUGHT" thing that most guides (especially old ones) talk about, and that's alright. Because I don't expect that my experience has to match others' experiences. Maybe I'll find something that they don't. Or maybe I'll just enjoy being with my tulpa. Whatever happens... happens really. All I know is that she's always listening, even when I can't hear her, and that's more than enough to have me going for it, because even though at times I look back and the moments were we had "clear" communication haven't been as many as others have experienced or whatever, those moments are definitely there, and I won't let bad moments eventually overtake myself because then I would never be able to experience the good again.

In my opinion, you were doing alright progress. Even if you didn't see it as such. Some things, like your narration, were a bit off, but you could have improved, really (hell, when I run out of stuff to narrate, I just start reading in my mind-voice towards the tupper whatever I'm reading on the Internet and hit it off from there). But then you decided to throw it all away and start with a new tupper, which was unnecessary. You needed a new approach to tulpamancy, not a new tulpa (and also, man, you should have made up your mind in a form before full-on starting, but hey, what do I know?). But eh, that's just like, my opinion there so take it for what it's worth.

About the visuals... eh, I guess that I get somewhat coherent images of what things mean when I read them, but they're more like concepts. If I focus on them though, I am somewhat able to imagine them in a visual sense, but I'm not there yet.  BUT WILL GET THERE EVENTUALLY, NEVER SAID I WOULDN'T brb time for 4th visuals session using that guide

hey you erased your pr here don't think i didn't notice
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Enny

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Re: timethief descends into hell for a bottle of milk
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2016, 01:59:40 AM »
Nice text-wall brah

I'll just reply to a few things, kinda didn't expect or want that much stuff focused towards me.

Honestly, visuals and sentience are all there was. That, and touch, I found, but really, what else should I have focused on? Visuals especially would have been the thing to make it all a bit more interesting. Personality and visuals were the major aspects to a pretty large amount of original tuppermancers' progress. And narration of course, which I obviously did way too little of. Still a cumulative lot, but too little in scope.

I also entertained the thought of that one small thing that would make it all work sometime early on, but realistically dropped the notion. If it seemed like I was still waiting for it later on in progress, I wasn't. I was petty much resolved to accept what I put in as the only gauge of what I was getting out.

My mindset was better at times and worse at times. I would say I was generally fairly negative, but the positive segment of time in the beginning, when I originally started, as well as the fairly lengthy bit when I first started on Peachy weren't much to write home about. Although, there was, retrospectively, a lot more in those first months with Peachy that I'd actually have considered progress than the ever was with Miriam. Which, yeah, I eventually started writing off when I shouldn't have. I just have that kinda head, though. It's not the kind of thing that I can consistently believe in. And if it is the case, that you need a positive mindset, some modicum of faith, or even just the, as Sands says, absence of disbelief, I really can't do it. I don't have faith in any aspect of anything I do, and since results in tuppering are not separate of mindset, that a tulpa might never develop if the host doesn't have enough 'faith', it gives me that it's just not as independent as I'd always thought in general, as well as, yeah, drives the lack of belief that I can do it in general, way down.

As it stands, now? No, I couldn't do it. I'd obviously, obviously still like a tupper, but it's not in the cards. Nothing in my head but my own thoughts, right now.

The RP thing was always weird for me too. No clue why everything in my head was so easy to do before tuppers, and so hard after, but it was. I gave up trying to figure it out. But RP leads into the next thing. I needed that alien thought, I think. Manipulating characters was such a norm through the entire thing that I'd start writing off possible signs of sentience. I genuinely believe the early "vocality" from Miriam was just my own parroting, but the nodding with Peachy, the facial expressions? I was pretty enthusiastic about those, but started questioning after a bit. Partially due to what seemed like inconsistency, but also because, yeah, it's just so easy for me to expect or want something, and for it to happen.

Which is why it was kind of nice when I gave Fede's method an honest try near the end, there, which I never mentioned on this site. Aware that I was parroting, still acknowledging some level of thought that at least seemed like it wasn't me, after a bit, etc. But as cool as it seemed to be going, it just wasn't seeming up to snuff with what I wanted out of it, so I stopped. That was, yeah, sometime last August.

In regards to starting over, and I won't even count second Tupper as an actual attempt, just getting away from all of the negative experiences with "Miriam" gave me my most positive experiences since I'd started, with Peachy. Still, even that had to end, because despite being able to change my mindset for a bit, months at a time even, can't do it permanently.


Also yeah, when you describe perceiving the "concept" of what you're reading, totally get that. Not many other people seemed to, when I'd describe it.

PR was an atrocity and deserved what it got. Only reason the one on .info is still up is because I somehow got a few messages along the way saying it helped people get to tupperville? How I kept going, despite it seeming hopeless or whatever. Idunno. The one on here I feel would have been too many pages of nothing, and of no benefit to anybody.

Whatever, do what I couldn't. If you've got another text-wall in mind, maybe consider PM'ing it, unless of course everyone else cares to see it, which I can't imagine they would.

timethief

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timethief '62
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2016, 08:39:58 PM »
Well, as I see it, all experiences count, good or bad. So I can see how some may have been motivated by your PR.

The main failure of most aspiring tulpamancers seems to be the sentience thing. Aside from tulpa, the word sentience must be the second most used in tulpa-related forums. It seems to me now that by stressing out with it, you essentially set up yourself for failure. After all, if you stressed out about sentience from everyone you met, you wouldn't get very far in life. Imagine if someone questioned everything you did. Not very pleasant.
Ultimately, it comes down to knowing what you're doing. You know it's possible, it can be done. You think it can't, it won't. Simple as that.

Was going to reply more, but seeing it may not help anyone at this point I'll pass. Thanks for replying anyway Enny, I hope you find a way in the near future if you're still willing to go for it.

Day 62
Sometimes, all one wants is just go around one's day with your tulpa around as your sidekick. That's what I did today. No forcing, no overcomplicated worries, just both of us doing quotidian activities. Played around with FL Studio again, looks like it went pretty okay. Took some more aniracetam because why not. It did made me sleepy, but afterwards it kind of cleared up and I was focused. Maybe it needs more burn-in time. I'll keep trying.
I also noticed how sometimes I lose track of my tulpa when I'm really engaged on something. I used to worry about such situations, but I have been slowly learning not to. It's natural after all, we may sometimes even forget about physical objects or persons as important as they may be to us, and that's okay. They won't go away because of it. My tulpa won't either. Sixty-two days of being together won't evaporate overnight. I guess for a beginner tulpamancer it may be a valid concern though. Their idea of their tulpa may not be very well cemented, and if they believe that it will happen, well, it will.

I noticed too that I still have those tulpa-forcing pressures. Not a complaint or anything, I even requested them because they're a helpful reminder of my tulpa and I suppose it may be good practice for her to do something like that.

Another thing, is that while so-called "emotional responses" have somewhat subsisted, when they appear they're very uplifting. Progress there I guess. Same with the communication; we're not at stable mindvoice yet, and it varies a lot. Sometimes it even sounds like a male speaking. I understand though, it must take a good amount of trying to get it right. So when we can't communicate clearly it feels strange, but when we can it's very much as if I was talking to someone else. I find myself doing more listening those times instead of "feeling" the words before they're spoken. More patience, narration and interaction are required I suppose. But we will get there.
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