Author Topic: This makes two  (Read 216693 times)

Re: This makes two
« Reply #150 on: February 06, 2014, 12:22:13 PM »
Narrate all day every day.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #151 on: February 06, 2014, 04:14:40 PM »
Okay but did you narrate or just talk at a wall? Yeah, combining it with other stuff is good too. I don't know if you've had this conversation with Sands before somewhere in these 20 pages, so tell me if I'm just giving you redundant advice.

Anyway, if the endgame for you is do tupper stuff then why don't you do that now? Like, you've probably heard this before but do fun stuff in your imagination. Or spend half an hour brushing your tupper's hair or something - this advice is two years old at least and it never steered me wrong; it's great because you're interacting with your tulpa, visualising hair in detail, immersing yourself in your imagination, and hopefully both you and your tulpa are having fun, all at once.

As far as personality goes, I don't think it's gonna be a good use of your time to do it at this stage. You'd be better off spending that time treating your tulpa like a person. So yeah, visualise I guess.

It definitely gets better with practice. But it also gets better with focus (or relaxing I guess) which is helped by having fun so I guess it goes back to having fun. You can play pictionary, that's good sometimes. But ideas like that are plentiful anyway and you can come up with your own.


About the underwhelming feelings, yeah, they suck. But I guess the best view to take is that it's just a WIP.
Or alternatively, take the opposite view. Forget about progress, sessions, and evaluating your tulpa like a tulpa. Evaluate them as a person instead, and do people things or whatever you'd like. Guess that goes back to having fun.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #152 on: February 06, 2014, 04:52:36 PM »
No, the feels are good.

Well for visualisation what I'd do is try to remember something I'd seen before. Like a place, or even easier, a scene from a film or a picture or something, or maybe just stare at your hand, then close your eyes and recall what you just saw.

It's still visualisation, but you don't have to construct or conjure or hold anything, only remember. It's essentially the same as using reference images, which are stupendously helpful.

As an example of how you'd use this, what you'd do to get brushing your tulpa's hair or mane or whatever is find a close approximation of that that you can use as a reference. So maybe it's a gif of some pone getting that brushing action, be it a blue one or some other pastel colour. So you recall that with your eyes closed - or open, if you want - and then substitute your own relevant stuff on top of what's happening. Hell, if your visualisation is shite then this is easy: if you can't make out the details in the first place then all you need to do is make like it's your tupper. And there you go, you're brushing your tulpa's hair in a sort of cheating but still legit sense.


Again, I don't know what Sands and others have given you already for this. But my top points for visualisation are always
- open-eye
- references
- move around
so I guess if any of that is new then there's that.


I don't know you well enough to suggest things that you'll find fun. Go crazy and play monopoly with your tulpa. I don't know, really, but there's probably something out there that you'll enjoy. It doesn't have to 'count as forcing' or whatever, it doesn't have to be an 'exercise' or an 'activity', just something that you both enjoy doing.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #153 on: February 07, 2014, 02:17:45 AM »
I'm not really sure what you have against reference images. They are seriously helpful okay.

What I meant with moving is that it's easier to visualise something that's moving around than stationary. I guess it's not really related to feeling up your tupper - although if you find that fun then there's that too. It's more like you'd get your tupper to walk or run around while you're visualising them, rather than have them stand around.


What you're describing seems fairly typical to me, even at nine months in. So I guess it's not really something to worry or get bothered about, just acknowledge that it's something that'll improve later.


Well, the monopoly example was a bit of a joke. Playing real-life board games is a bit too crazy if you live with other people. You could play imaginary snakes and ladders - you'd probably tell me that you couldn't keep track of the pieces, but I'd reply that in that case playing the game gives you an opportunity to improve that.

It doesn't have to be a board game. That's just an unimaginative example. I don't know what you'd find fun so I can't really give you some good ideas here. But if you can't think of a single thing that night be fun to do with your tupper then man, I don't know.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #154 on: February 07, 2014, 08:59:52 AM »
Don't underestimate how your imagination can fill in the blanks. Even if you can't draw a complete walk cycle frame by frame, you still know how it looks like when a person or thing walks if you've seen it before. Of course you might break the illusion if you look at it too closely, but you don't have to do that. And early on, it doesn't even matter if you can't see what happens too well. If it's some shape that is your tupper and it's moving then hey, guess what. You're visualizing and practicing, you might not see everything perfectly ight off the bat.

Open or closed eyes, which one is easier for someone depends on the person, but I think it's a good idea to practice using both methods. And I'm definitely the kind of a person who enjoys touching things with my hands so feeling the tupper has always helped me. As did reference images, it's much easier to remember something you saw than to create an entirely new one. I made a quick sketch of the tupper's form early on from as many sides as I wanted and every time I felt like I was losing it, I could just remember one of those. I could look at him from many different angles and even though at first it was pretty choppy, it got much better as I practiced.

Oh and because we're talking of movement, maybe you should try moving yourself as well. A bit difficult to look at the tupper that way, but you might learn to see what is around you as you run through the landscape. That helps me immerse myself well at least and it's visualization in the end. You might learn something.

Also I noticed how you said something along the lines of ignoring your own doubts and such. If you remember my absence of disbelief tl;dr I wrote way back, I did say that outright ignoring things is stupid. Mostly when it comes to responses you think might be from a tupper, but it also goes both ways. Don't ignore your own doubts. They're caused by something and ignoring them won't make the reason go away. So think about the causes and see what would ease your doubts. Of course, if you think that the only way for your doubts to go away actually first requires you to deal with your doubts to get there, you've createn an impossible situation. So think how much you really need instead of asking for the impossible.

I've seen plenty of people who say they will do all kinds of cool stuff when their tupper is imposed, but until then they think they can't do anything. I don't know why that is, seeing how there's a lot of tulpas people spend time with that aren't imposed. You might only be seeing your goal when the journey there is also pretty important and it can be fun, of course. And should be. You don't need to see a person to have fun with them, nor do you have to actually talk to a person to have fun with them. Of course it's usually more or less only one of those you can do at a time, but well. Those who are deaf and blind still manage to have fun with others somehow.

If you only like a few things and you think you can't share those hobbies with someone else (the tupper in this case), then how about getting new hobbies. Oh sure, "but I don't care about anything else!/I can't do something else!". Once you start doing only one thing and being lazy, it starts to look really hard to actually do something new. Feels impossible. Often happens to people who have been unemployed for a while and basically do nothing but sleep and eat all day. It becomes very hard for them to actually motivate themselves to do something, but once they try, they might see it actually wasn't so bad and it's fun. A person who never tries to do new stuff or never wants to change will stagnate and grow stubborn in a bad way. It's not a pretty sight, believe me.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #155 on: February 07, 2014, 12:11:16 PM »
I guess if you're still allowed to read and listen to music then you could do that with your tulpa. You know, like how you might with another person, roughly speaking.

Talking about walk cycles, I guess you've preemptively vetoed my suggestion of getting some references up of that. Yes, you could definitely use more practice. It might take looking at some reference over and over again until you've really memorised it, but at least you get to stare at ponies for however long that takes.

Well, if you can't move around well then that's less than ideal. But I guess that you should practice that, then. Hell, set yourself a small target, just to be able to move smoothly, or to hold one particular reference image. It'd give you something close to head towards, at least.


Okay for a lot of people doubts are a big deal. I suppose you've heard everything there is to hear about a good mindset and so on. But my advice to you is that if something feels bad, don't do it. Okay, that response felt fake? Fine, it was. Then you can try to deal with it.

But at the same time, you shouldn't try to second-guess yourself. That means no 'subconscious suppression' or whatever. You should make a decision on something purely by its content and how it felt.

How people continue? I guess the people that do aren't afraid to admit that their tulpa can't do this and that. More than doubt, they may be certain that they get weak and fake-ish responses. And instead of that being a sticking point, they can take that in their stride as simply something that needs work.

How to actually do the improving is another matter, yes. But once you've got to that you only have that problem rather than that and a load of stuff about doubt. Which is easier to deal with.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #156 on: February 13, 2014, 08:23:08 AM »
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. Even the definition is a bit different with some, some meaning you know, nothing but actual emotions and some including headpressure and such in there as well. I know that I was the kind of a person who never really felt the emotions because I just didn't notice them or brushed them off.

Play tic tac toe with tupper.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #157 on: February 13, 2014, 12:08:57 PM »
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. Even the definition is a bit different with some, some meaning you know, nothing but actual emotions and some including headpressure and such in there as well.
Quote
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. The definition varies so wildly between different people that all bets are off whether yours are the same as mine.
Is there any point even trying then? An emotional response is when your tulpa tells you to burn things.

How to play tic tac toe? You make move, tulpa makes move, and so on until you draw. Then play again. Ad infinitum.
It's better to play ultimate tic tac toe, but I guess if your tulpa isn't a master strategist then you haven't a hope in hell of playing coherently. Oh well.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #158 on: February 13, 2014, 01:46:05 PM »
Oh man but my tupper never told me to burn things. Must have a faulty tupper, can I return it?

Tic tac toe is the best tupper game.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #159 on: February 14, 2014, 07:42:26 AM »
She has spoken before, you say. You just doubt that it was her now. But if you've stopped listening then you're ignoring so much you will probably never hear her, so...

Touch is always nice.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #160 on: February 14, 2014, 04:17:23 PM »
You got what you thought was a response and then you tried it over and over again until you could mimic it perfectly? Or it has always felt the same as now, something you can replicate 100%? Because no shit, if you practice then you can make everything seem the same. The thing is, has it always felt like it has been the same. If you had to practice to make it seem identical then what made it different in the first place? Why did you have to put all that effort in to learn to replicate something that happened naturally a moment ago?

Re: This makes two
« Reply #161 on: February 16, 2014, 03:41:11 PM »
Again, the first vocal responses I got from Roswell I doubted. They felt so much like what I could do, not at all what people said it would be like back then. I could have ignored them all. I didn't, I listened even if I didn't believe in them at all, gave it some time. Found something to convince me. I'm here with a vocal tupper now. Maybe I still would have one if I didn't listen back then, but I'm pretty sure it would have taken me many months after that.

If you've already made your mind that it was fake like you obviously have reading at your previous comments, it's going to be hard to hear anything. We don't know, maybe it was fake. Maybe it wasn't. Some tuppers take a while to be able to talk while other hosts are absolutely fucking deaf. What I can say is that I've heard a similar story before and well. I did write that thing about absence of disbelief instead of blindly believing and ignoring for a reason.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2014, 10:08:15 AM »
I did timers myself as well, that way I couldn't just do it until I felt it was enough and then find out I had done it for just a few minutes when I wanted to get a longer session done. With an alarm ready, you don't have to worry about the time at all as you will know when it's over. And after that, you can continue if you think you can or should.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #163 on: February 19, 2014, 12:20:43 PM »
Well yeah. Usually includes something a bit more, like switching or imposition skills to really get it super vivid and feel... I dunno, solid, you know. But in the end, what those two have is ignoring physical senses so they don't get in the way of the imaginary ones and the other is just making your visualization skills so awesome you can hallucinate. With practice, even if you don't get to switching or imposition or if they're not your goals, you could get pretty damn good at seeing stuff and use similar methods of your own to get there.

And I guess some have tried to use lucid dreaming to help with their tupperforcing, dunno how that would go but maybe you would want to try it.

Re: This makes two
« Reply #164 on: February 22, 2014, 04:54:51 AM »
Only way to get to it is to just do it.