Tulpa Network

Moderation => Deleted Posts => Topic started by: Enny on October 17, 2013, 11:01:44 PM

Title: This makes two
Post by: Enny on October 17, 2013, 11:01:44 PM
Mod edit: Author has requested this thread to be deleted. Author's posts will be removed permanently and the thread with the other posters will go to deleted posts.

-Sands
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 12:52:23 AM
Don't watch it on your eye-pod. You're missing the point in that case. That little "screen" won't flash your eyes worth a damn. And then, oh look: there's no visual entrainment. Then it's only auditory entrainment, and that's only half as effective.

What you do while using it is optional, but if you read the page, you'd know at least some of the things you could do in order to strengthen your visualisation skills. I ask you to go and read the page the again, because if I didn't know any better, you just skimmed the entire thing and jumped straight to the download links and grabbed... Constant Alpha... because Makeshift found it useful. Yeah, seems to me you didn't read anything. Not that I really know, but your uninformed views reflect such a guess. How much you can or should use it is also something I explain on the page.

Shapes and colours are probably the only things your supposedly weak visual cortex can work out because you're likely not used to hallucinating anything (are you?), so phosphene imagery is the next-best thing you're probably gonna be seeing for a while.

Also pretty hilarious to hear you're gonna use it in the weekend "because there's more time". Like those kind of people that go all "Man, I'm gonna make a tupper during summer because then I'll have time for it." because their daily schedule is packed up with vidya and "studies" and what do you know, even though those people in many, many cases have at least an hour to set off for work on a tupper. They just can't be arsed. Eh, anyway, I guess I shouldn't be too assumptious here, but it's familiar, you'll have to agree on that.
Title: Re: This makes fart
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 07:25:33 AM
Your description of your ability to visualise is very fluctuating. During the night, where you're not working on any specific visual, you can see "just fine and dandy", but when you're actively trying to "work" on a visual, your visualisation skills are suddenly "shite"? And you've been doing this for 12 years, despite still attending classes and living with your father? Sounds like a lucid dreaming thing that carried over as a simple activity from childhood, at least to me. Of course, I would like you to elaborate on this apparent "dynamic ability to visualise".

How you can use them is described in the "Long-Term Use" chapter. To quote: What’s very decisive during long-term use is also what thoughts you have while being entrained. If you want to improve your long-term memory, focus as much as you can on recalling your memories. If you want to visualise better, focus on visualising images. The thought counts. You can choose to just play a file and expect things to happen automatically, but if you want to speed up the progress, you know what to do.

The "Don't mute the video." thing is because it's a likely scenario that some dude would prefer to mute the video in question and then put on some playlist in the background. While this is perfectly okay, it's generally recommended to listen to the noise pulses instead, as they aid in the entrainment and are only there to help the listener, not bother him.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 18, 2013, 07:49:34 AM
Hey, I see you actually joined here. Hah, wasn't really expecting it but hey, if you find useful stuff here then that's great. We already talked about things before so I don't think if there's anything new to add right now. I'll leave Fede to talk with you about his Eye-Bo thing.

Also Fede, I can say from experience that it's possible to be pretty good at daydreaming and then have everything go fuzzy when you work on tuppers, but that of course got better as I did it more. Dunno why, but somehow it happened.
Title: Re: This mafartkes two
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 07:55:09 AM
Kinda like when the politician described his fuzzy greying effect when staring at Barry for too long. I can relate. It makes things look funny. The thing is that Enny makes it sound like he's like totally vividly hallucinating clear as day, but then when he says "at night", lucid dreaming immediately comes to mind. But I'll let him answer.
Title: Re: Fart makes two
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 11:08:27 AM
Criticising is my job, blud.

I think you and I interpret "seeing fine and dandy" differently, then. When I think of that, I'm thinking along the lines of actual closed-eyed hallucinations that you can see with your very eyes, as opposed to getting caught up in some sort of daydream where you merely know what everything and everyone looks like and is doing, but can't really see in the literal (as opposed to figurative) sense of the word; like, non-mind's eye, but actual eyes, you see. And using italics is just fun, isn't it.
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 03:12:44 PM
Narrating about pokeymangs...? Oh, yeah, right, I guess I kinda also forgot you're not using my method. Perhaps just some of it, yeah? Those gay exercises and all this? Also I had no idea what this Homecoming thing was until you mentioned it. It looks like one of those American traditions that have been bent all outta shape but people just "celebrate" anyway. Not that I can confirm this. I just have a tendency to assume things about American life sometimes. I probably shouldn't.
Title: Re: This makes tfartwo
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 03:53:44 PM
Your texting reaches similar weirdness levels.

Must really be awesome to have someone stepping inside your room so you can be reaffirmed that you have no real privacy. Glad I'm not you. No offence. Also, get in #tuppers if you aren't there already.
Title: Re: Thfartis makes two
Post by: Fede on October 18, 2013, 04:08:45 PM
There are many IRC clients available, but if you prefer to not install anything, you can use Mibbit (http://chat.mibbit.com). Select Rizon as the network, type in your preferred nickname, and use #tuppers as the channel.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Roswell on October 20, 2013, 06:10:03 AM
Imposition, yes, that is what I would call it. Your tulpa is with you and you are trying to hallucinate them in some way. Perhaps it is not the sight you are working on at the moment, but you are definitely trying to hallucinate something, yes? Saying it is imposition isn't wrong, though you could of course say what exactly the goal of the sessions you are having is to others, if you want to.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 21, 2013, 08:37:36 AM
Well yeah, feeling of something that isn't actually there is a hallucination. Imposition, woot.

What do you even mean by measuring? If you know how high the tulpa is compared to something, just get a measuring tape. Is there someone who doesn't own one?

Anyways, as a sort of artist, I know a lot about motivation. And the most important thing I know about it is that you can't wait for it or it never comes. You just need to start it and keep at it. Motivation either comes or doesn't, but you're not getting anything done unless you just start doing it. In fact, you're probably going to get motivation and inspiration as you work instead of just waiting and hoping for it to come.
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on October 21, 2013, 09:30:40 AM
I remember someone talking about the "mirror method" once; you look at yourself through a mirror and imagine the tupper next to you. That's a start for measurement, anyway. What I like to do, in case I somehow screw it up, is tell myself "her X reaches to my Y", or "my X reaches to her Y". My eyes reach to her mouth, for instance. Then I impose accordingly. There's a lot of tricks you can do if you just experiment.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 21, 2013, 09:52:25 AM
Well, seeing that I only did 30 minute sessions... Though multiple ones per day, I guess. You could easily have very short sessions and then just have more of that stuff, maybe that's even better than sitting down for two hours every day. Easier to find time to do it, at least. And well, some people just start getting distracted or tired if they force for too long and basically get nothing done after some point.

And well yeah Fede, but it's hard to get exact measurements he was after without actually measuring them. Measuring tapes don't cost that much, though, just buy one. It's a useful tool to have in life anyways, so no need to not get one.

I use myself to help with the scale too, but seeing that tupper is a lot taller than me, having him stand next to something only allows me to create even more reference points for his exact height. And well, once you know tall a tulpa is compared to like say, a door, you can then easily measure that to know the exact height without any perspective fuck-uppery. That's kind of an issue for me, at least. Pretty hard to try to measure someone taller than you when you don't know where exactly their head ends and there's nothing physical to check by touch when my eyes don't reach.

Though I guess a mirror might help there but I have no full-body mirrors so.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 21, 2013, 10:54:28 AM
9 more days isn't really any time at all.
Title: Re: This makes twfarto
Post by: Fede on October 21, 2013, 01:34:35 PM
Then just stick to visualising with eyes closed until then, whoa. Unless that was implied, but it didn't seem like that.

Also, she doesn't reach your mirror? Who and what is your tupper, even? Give some details, if you don't mind.
Title: Re: Thifarts makes two
Post by: Fede on October 21, 2013, 03:21:44 PM
Hm. I tend to forget details I've heard repeatedly over a longer period. Apologies. There's been so many damn Rainbow Dashes at this point that I must've stopped taking note of them, unconsciously labelling them as redundant in my mind. I guess that's why I wondered how you couldn't see your tupplah in your mirror.

Also Colonel stop ninjaing me.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 21, 2013, 03:22:53 PM
You don't find the thought of cuddling with an old wrinkly man with a lot of chest hair motivating? Pleb.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 21, 2013, 05:04:27 PM
Blanked

That isn't an issue.
Title: Re: This makfartes two
Post by: Fede on October 21, 2013, 05:34:49 PM
Mmmmmhm...
Title: Re: This makes tfartwo
Post by: Fede on October 22, 2013, 03:08:50 PM
But hairy, old men are the best ones for tucking you in at night and giving you a kiss on the forehead. Colonel can speak from experience, and Duke from repressed denial.

Use the Gamma pace if you don't have any trouble with sleep whatsoever. It's the one I use all the time, whereas I use the Theta pace on repeat during the night.
Title: Re: Fart makes fart
Post by: Fede on October 22, 2013, 04:48:15 PM
To quote from the page:

There are four paces to choose from: Delta, Theta, Alpha, and Gamma. Each pace has an ascending, descending, and constant version. The reason for this is that whether or not the pace goes up or down during the tape has an impact on the experience of the session; if a Theta session ascends from 4 to 8 Hz, it will generally become trippier as it progresses, whereas if it descends from 8 to 4 Hz, it will be more relaxing. The constant pace is there for those that prefer to have long, stable sessions.

You should choose the file you want based on the mood you’re in and how awake you are. First, go have a look over the descriptions of each pace; delta, theta, and so on. When you’ve found the one with the effects you’d like to replicate, consider how mentally agitated or fresh you are. If you feel drowsy or tired, go with the ascending version. If you feel awaken or energic, go with the descending version, or, alternatively, the constant version. If you for any reason find the noise to be bothersome to listen to, you can go ahead and mute the video and instead play some music or nature sounds in the background, but remember that the sound pulses are specifically there to help entrain you, not bother you.
Title: Re: This makes fartwo
Post by: Fede on October 23, 2013, 10:42:15 AM
There's no preference, blud. I choose my file based on my goals, mental agitation, time of the day, and all those other factors.
Title: Fart: This farts two
Post by: Fede on October 28, 2013, 11:52:24 AM
Blanked
Are you thinking what I'm thinking, B1? I think I am, B2! (http://tulpanetwork.com/network/guides/fede's-ultimate-superior-tupper-guide/)
Title: Re: Fart makes two
Post by: Fede on October 28, 2013, 04:15:57 PM
>still haven't read it

All the more reason.
Title: Re: This makes fart
Post by: Fede on October 29, 2013, 01:18:17 AM
Maybe you missed the part where it says: "Remember that this is only a guide, not a tutorial. Take from it what's useful."
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 29, 2013, 08:38:14 AM
Have you massaged your tulpas today?
Title: Re: Fartis makes two
Post by: Fede on October 29, 2013, 08:58:12 AM
Have you massaged your tulpas today?
I think the better question is: have your tuppers massaged you today?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Roswell on October 29, 2013, 11:29:42 AM
Have you massaged your tulpas today?
I think the better question is: have your tuppers massaged you today?

Not today. But perhaps it might happen.

Enny, what is it that you like to do? What do you find fun?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 29, 2013, 12:43:25 PM
Get some hobbies or you'll end up like me. You don't want that, do you?

Anyways uh I did read some books to the tupper. At some point I did this I read one sentence/two sentences/whatever and then I let the tupper to read the next whatever sentences. Even though he wasn't vocal or anything and I didn't parrot him either, but hey. I did something and involved him in it and it gave me some heavy headaches, something I don't normally have when reading. Maybe it was a sign of it being good or something, dunno.

Or you could just read to the tupper or something.
Title: Re: Fart farts fart
Post by: Fede on October 29, 2013, 01:52:51 PM
I would say if you have a short attention span or lack autotelic motivation, you're pretty much screwed in most endeavours.
Title: Re: This makes fart
Post by: Fede on October 31, 2013, 11:25:34 AM
You sure know how to plan your purchases and save up your money.
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on October 31, 2013, 11:57:50 AM
"Need".

Yeah, you and I have differing views of "needing" something.
Title: Re: Fart makes two
Post by: Fede on October 31, 2013, 02:49:12 PM
Wowza, way to take offense at such a simple statement.

You could've bought a used hoodie, as opposed to buying a new one. Learn to enjoy rain on your head and dry your hair when you get home; free hair wash. Concerts are unnecessary, especially when you have imagination.

Like I said, differing views.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on October 31, 2013, 04:19:16 PM
Afraid money problems aren't exactly tupper progress. Go on another tupper date and report back.

PS buy cheaper hoodies
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: LuckyCharms on October 31, 2013, 05:05:26 PM
http://prntscr.com/212eu5 (http://prntscr.com/212eu5)

Just sayin
Title: Re: This farts fart
Post by: Fede on October 31, 2013, 05:35:56 PM
That's the spirit. Give us something interesting to read.
Title: Re: Fart farts two
Post by: Fede on November 01, 2013, 06:49:10 PM
Do you notice the reminders you set up for yourself, or do you look at them and then shortly thereafter dismiss or forget about them?
Title: Re: This makes frot
Post by: Fede on November 04, 2013, 02:49:31 PM
You could do that Eye-Bo marathon thing I do where the right half of your screen is occupied by an Eye-Bo video (preferably a constant version) on repeat and the other half reserved for whatever it is you do on the computer. Then, when you plan to go to bed or do something else in your room that doesn't involve the computer, you can easily switch the video to fullscreen, and then back to windowed mode when you're done. This, of course, has the implication that your room is non-lit, with your screen being the only source of light.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 04, 2013, 03:06:17 PM
Go through what you've learned with her. Explain stuff. Make her your study partner. Of sorts.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 08, 2013, 01:55:56 PM
Well, you know what they say. A forum is only as active as you make it be. Literally.

I'm not sure if anyone else has tried narrating that way, but you do have to keep it up and see where it takes you. Maybe one day you'll advertise it as your original method do not steal, huh?
Title: Re: This fartcakes two
Post by: Fede on November 09, 2013, 10:31:17 AM
Well, you know what they say. A forum is only as active as you make it be. Literally.
I blame the Belgian for consistently posting on .info and not here. The magazine is our last hope for some public outreach. Or maybe we just need to wait for the inevitable summer-popularisation to happen next year; .info got a bunch of people during the summer.

Or maybe people should just post more.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 12, 2013, 09:03:52 AM
Bad knee, try swimming or maybe take the bike out for a ride. No one forces you to do that stuff fast and depending where you live, both could very well be free.

Also sounds to me like you've gotten narration with visualization down pretty good. That sounds sorta familiar but not exactly identical so I'd say you've figured out the trick that works for you.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 12, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
No pools? That's some excellent city planning there. 10/10 America. Maybe I'm just too used to actually having stuff like that.

You get shit consistent by making it consistent. Look at it, study it until you remember it. If it changes after you've made it consistent or your changes back to the old version get reverted or it's easier to keep it consistent after it has changed then guess you might want to roll with that, then. Something changes it and if it's pleasant, why not, you know?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 13, 2013, 08:39:52 AM
Eh, close enough. I know here they at least try to give the people not living next to the good stuff something they need. Like say, public pools. Think they're about to build a new one close to where I used to live as a kid, that's pretty nice I guess because it kinda was needing one. Only sucks for you if you live in rural areas because they're moving all services there to more urban areas. But that's life.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 14, 2013, 09:04:25 AM
Sounds (or smells or something) can definitely make you visualize better, especially if your mind's eye isn't as good as some other imaginary sense. So yeah, do give it a try and let your imagination take you where it wants to... As long as you can do it with your tupper. Not a good forcing session if you don't even do anything with the tulpa, you know. Don't let yourself get too distracted unless you find something really cool, I think then you're allowed to go check it out. Only helps your visualization skills.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 15, 2013, 02:30:28 PM
Probably because many people realize the tulpa's form isn't the most important thing, it can change in the future and some really would like to look unique instead of some other form taken from somewhere else.
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on November 15, 2013, 03:29:37 PM
I think what Colonel is trying to convey is that a form is just a representation, just like the voice or any other kind of hallucination provoked by the tupper can be. It's not decisive unless you really believe it is. If she changed her form into a giant dragon or her voice into that of a high-pitched mouse, would that make her a different person? Would she act upon what she makes herself out to be, rather than how her personality defines her?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 15, 2013, 07:05:07 PM
Even if it's a decision made because they're young and stupid, nothing stops them from changing it when they're older and less stupid.

And nothing really stops you from talking to them, they usually get your point even if you don't know their reasons for it and they can't explain for one reason or another. Not being vocal being one of the reasons there. I talked with the horndog about things too and we could usually make a compromise.

Also my response was to the whole "I don't get how all these anime lovers can keep a consistent Tulpa" question. And shit like "As it is, I have a thing for one of the demon sisters, Kneesocks".
Title: Re: Your mum makes two
Post by: Fede on November 18, 2013, 10:26:55 AM
And another one bites the dust.

I think you're forgetting to have fun. From my point of view, it's supposed to be enjoyable. Think of any activity that can involve her and be fun at the same time. Talking about subjects of interest, reading stories and forum posts, drawing things on real and imaginary paper. I dunno what you'd find enjoyable in this regard. But oh well. You're giving up quite fast.

Also,

>complains about lack of vividness
>still not doing an Eye-Bo marathon

.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Fede on November 18, 2013, 11:18:51 AM
Blanked
I'd say there's quite a big difference between doing mere 30 minutes a day and doing:
You could do that Eye-Bo marathon thing I do where the right half of your screen is occupied by an Eye-Bo video (preferably a constant version) on repeat and the other half reserved for whatever it is you do on the computer. Then, when you plan to go to bed or do something else in your room that doesn't involve the computer, you can easily switch the video to fullscreen, and then back to windowed mode when you're done. This, of course, has the implication that your room is non-lit, with your screen being the only source of light.
But hey, you lost access to Eye-Bo, so clearly, you're fucked.
Title: Re: This makes fart
Post by: Fede on November 18, 2013, 01:34:23 PM
Eye-Bo is only a supplement, and its effects can be felt more in the long term through persistent use. How fast people get "results" is subjective. Some are already good at visualising and just need a little push, while others are not very good and need much more entrainment and practice to become as good at visualising. Some are very sensitive to rhythmic entrainment, while others are more resistant. Some can focus on the same thing for long periods of time, while the attention span may be lacking for others.

Compare a guy that loves to draw, finds music very emotionally affecting, and can focus on things for hours at a time, to a guy that comes up with very few ideas, spends the majority of his time being stimulated by various external mediums like movies or video games, and can barely hold his attention onto something before it becomes boring. Whom do you think will feel the strongest effect of the entrainment? Many factors decide how much of an effect it'll have on you and how much you'll have to use it in order to get "results", which is why that, while testimonies may be fun to read, they're ultimately irrelevant.
Title: Re: This makes two towers
Post by: Fede on November 18, 2013, 03:37:42 PM
Like I said, some need more entrainment than others, and you apparently need a lot. Better get to it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 20, 2013, 04:26:44 PM
Well, that's just a theory. No one's really proven anything so yeah. Anyone claiming anything as a fact about tupper stuff should be avoided, but believe in what you want to believe. I'm not stopping you, who knows which theory is right, is any.

I do suggest you to keep at it, you might be onto something here. You don't really have to decide if it's a proper response or not yet. You can just roll with it and see where it goes without making "permanent" choices. Maybe you could try some harder subjects as well, it's always interesting to hear what the tupper might be thinking about something difficult.
Title: Re: This remakes two
Post by: Fede on November 25, 2013, 12:07:52 PM
Don't worry; she's just going through a phase. My unhindered thoughts used to make my tupper swear a lot more than what would be appropriate for her character back when I was still consciously parroting her, but it fell out of favour eventually. Just don't let it get to you. I let it get to me one time long ago, and I was a bit upset about it, until I realised those swears were other voices.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 25, 2013, 02:24:32 PM
You should enjoy the silly things young tuppers do and say, because they grow up so fast. Sniff.
Title: Re: This makes to
Post by: Fede on November 25, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
The reasons vary. Some people have horny imaginations. Some are totally psyched by the whole tupper thing and are already planning their tupper honeymoon at the very beginning. Some just give it a quick thought like "Oh, yeah, I guess she could be a girlfriend... not that she is." and then that thought comes back to bite them in the butt months later. There are of course the cases where it happens completely out of the blue. Hidden affection, ohoho. Or the cases where the host is turned on by ideas of hidden affection and then it automatically happens with the tupper. Power of the thought.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 25, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
Yeah I wish I knew where a lot of that stuff came from. Don't even try to find hidden puns from what I just wrote.

I guess when you're that one person who is always with them, the one they know more or less everything about, it's easy to get interested in them as time goes on. New feelings develop and such as a tupper matures I guess. Usually you're the only one they got and they just know you so well they can see all the good in the middle of all the bad. So, shit happens. Hell, there even seems to be this kind of weird worship thing going on at times, where the tupper thinks so highly of their host for one reason or another, usually having to do with the host being the tulpa's creator and the tulpa just thinking the host is a godly human being because they know them. And probably are biased and can't see all the bad parts the host has or are able to ignore them because they know the reasons for those bad things.

Well, love makes you blind I guess.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 26, 2013, 08:58:07 AM
Did he ever.

Implying he's still not doing it.
Title: Re: Thos mokos two
Post by: Fede on November 26, 2013, 11:37:32 AM
He likes to give him a goodnight kiss every night, and they both love to deny it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 26, 2013, 12:43:20 PM
The kissing's my part and no one's denying that. The sacrifices you do to make your imaginary head person happy.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 26, 2013, 02:32:42 PM
No problem, you know the image will haunt you during those times when you definitely don't want to see something like that.
Title: Re: This made two last night
Post by: Fede on December 01, 2013, 05:16:26 PM
I kind of feel like asking why you're making a tupper to begin with. To have someone to talk to? Then talk. You know the drill.
Title: Re: This bakes two
Post by: Fede on December 01, 2013, 06:27:50 PM
Your intention was to cuddle? Well then, better get down to it and let the awkwardness flow within you, as Pae once told me when I was being weird about hugging my then-pony tupper.

Imposition is just very, very advanced visualisation with your eyes open; a partially-blinding daydream. Remember that if you can visualise something that looks like it's actually there with your eyes closed, then nothing's hindering you from doing the same with eyes opened. The simple difference is just that there are more distractions when your eyes are open. That's why there exists the phenomenon where visualising while staring at a blank wall produces more vivid hallucinations than when staring at a space full of details and distracting stimuli.

And I guess I'll go to bed now.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 02, 2013, 09:59:38 AM
How about more talking. Actually living together and doing what you have always wanted to do. Both can say their opinions now and hold a conversation, now it's when you really start to know your tulpa. And you know, talking more makes it easier for you to hear them and such.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 02, 2013, 01:06:44 PM
Well, a tupper/host relationship is pretty unique. And you don't always really start anywhere, you do need to actually build that relationship for it to really become something. Which includes hanging out and talking and learning to really know each other.

Is it you, is it her, doesn't really matter. You have chosen to listen, so might as well keep listening until you think you should be making a decision. No need to hurry there, just talk. If you're anything like me, at some point you just gotta start accepting that maybe it's not me because everything they say is weird and I didn't think they'd ever say something like that.

So just chill your balls and talk about something. See if you can find something she likes, maybe see if she wants to fill out surveys or tests or something for shits and giggles. You know that the whole talking thing ain't gonna get better unless you talk, right?
Title: Re: This makes tomb
Post by: Fede on December 02, 2013, 01:16:50 PM
One of my tupper thing whatevers isn't always the most talkative type. So we instead resort to body language and various social signals, which is quite enjoyable. So, maybe try body language. lol.

Whatever's most enjoyable, man.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 07, 2013, 06:53:23 AM
See, it gets better and easier the more you do it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 08, 2013, 06:36:55 AM
Very deep. I approve of your asspats. But now I hunger for more. You have created a monster.

Well I dunno, back when Roswell was realy new and the weather was really nice, I'd take him outside and show him things I liked. Sure, most likely he already knew all that because we share a head but you know. It was fun and we spent time together. Also ate ice cream.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 08, 2013, 04:08:01 PM
Well, all I got is a bike as well, but it kinda helps with imposition if the tupper sits on the rear rack and wraps their hands around you.

And I usually went inside anyways, because I like to be inside more than I like to be outside. Explains my pasty white skin I'm sure. And you bet spaghetti will be dropped if the tulpa wants to hold your hand and then you gotta squeeze through something where you can't walk side by side and you gotta move your arm in a stupid way. No one probably even sees it or thinks it's anything, but still. Always feels like they know exactly what's up.

With books, try reading every two sentences and then telling the tupper to read the next two or something. It can be fun.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 08, 2013, 04:42:51 PM
Well I don't know about music at all so I couldn't have even helped you there.

You could try looking at your tulpa and drawing them. Might be hard, but should be interesting. And possession drawing always seems to be fun and interesting to watch at least for me. I know Roswell's been having a blast painting stuff.

And I guess you could just ask the tulpa what you should be drawing or if something looks okay. Feedback is always nice.
Title: Re: Team makes fortress two
Post by: Fede on December 10, 2013, 04:38:42 PM
Comics you say? May I make a suggestion?
http://www.teamfortress.com/comics.php
"I'm the mayor, mayors can do anything!", the magician said. "Look, I baked you guys a pie!", the elven voice said.
Title: Re: This makes towels
Post by: Fede on December 10, 2013, 06:31:26 PM
You mean hypnopompia. So people don't get the wrong idea.

Yes, that's the one, as you're already well-aware.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 12, 2013, 09:56:36 AM
I like comparing page 1 to page 10. This is the kind of stuff I like to see. Keep up the good work, yo. Now's when fun stuff will start happening, but there will probably be some more trouble in the future. But you can always look back to help yourself get over that, you already got over something major once.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 12, 2013, 04:09:26 PM
Well luckily for many of us, things weren't this bad when we started out. If I would find out about tuppers now and saw all this, I would avoid the whole thing.
Title: Re: 'Tis makes two
Post by: Fede on December 12, 2013, 04:15:50 PM
Hey, my tupper was based off a human Pinkie Pie. Then a bunch of other characters because lolforms. She was a pony for a couple of months. We had mouthsex a few times while she employed that particular form. You would've have cringed, maybe. Of course, nowadays she's stuck more with a redhead human form for which there exists no accurate reference. There's a couple of images that look somewhat like her, but hey, I bet you could also find images of guys that resemble me. Maybe even pictures that look like Miriam, too.

And on Colonel's note, it's agreeable. But maybe it's more because I liked the whole atmosphere of "the few gurus and the /mlp/ threads" and the whole you-gotta-try-it-to-find-out-because-almost-no-one's-done-it kind of thing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 12, 2013, 05:53:57 PM
I think everyone just thought the idea of you licking and making out with the air was hilarious, Fede. Or disturbing, which also was hilarious.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 13, 2013, 02:36:54 PM
Hah.

Well, the better your imagination is and the better you can experience hallucinations (that's imposition), the better you can actually feel something like that even though it's not really happening. As for being inexperienced, think of dream sex. I'm sure majority of the people start experiencing those before they actually have any real sex themselves but it doesn't stop it from fooling them. Or making them enjoy it, I guess. Your brain has a way of filling in the blanks, of course it will most likely be wrong when you don't actually know what it is like, but hey. What works for you works for you.
Title: Re: This breaks two
Post by: Fede on December 13, 2013, 03:57:20 PM
I know for one that Glitch uses a pillow. Or did. Maybe still. Many people do indeed just wank off and call it "tupper sex", though. There are very few known people that have genuinely experienced imposed sex with their tuppers without needing hand assistance. The whole "jizz hands-free" concept really excited a lot of people in the /mlp/ threads originally. Marketing schemes, I tell ya.
Title: Re: This fakes two
Post by: Fede on December 13, 2013, 10:33:36 PM
People often tell me they "find" my videos. My channel on YouTube is not my secret alter-ego.

I randomly saw the video on my Facebook wall, despite the limited number of affiliates and liked pages I have set to show things on that wall. To my surprise, I couldn't find the video on YouTube, so I went ahead and uploaded it with a fitting title. I have nothing to do with the person in the video.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 16, 2013, 04:20:12 PM
Not sure what would keep you focused, but if the problem is more about forgetting and you could easily continue once you remember, people tend to wear something somewhere they see and/or feel, which would remind them of that one thing.

And well, the chat thread is there for people to post in, if they have something they want to say but it's nothing that fits other threads. No need to feel like you have to write something amazing when you could just write about whatever.
Title: Re: Thou makes two
Post by: Fede on December 16, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
What a loving parent.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on December 16, 2013, 05:00:28 PM
He's just trying to help.
Title: Re: This mates two
Post by: Fede on December 16, 2013, 05:14:56 PM
He's just trying to help.
(http://i.imgur.com/K4HlCSn.jpg)
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on December 16, 2013, 05:59:06 PM
You know what you need to do.

But can you do it?
Title: Re: You don't have mental issues
Post by: Fede on December 16, 2013, 06:51:54 PM
Blanked
(http://i.imgur.com/11xBsou.jpg)

Blanked
(http://i.imgur.com/gAlzGjJ.jpg)

Blanked
(http://i.imgur.com/rWZ3hDK.jpg)

Blanked
(http://i.imgur.com/6pjAMEF.jpg)

Actually, I'm not sure there's much he can do, other than disobey. I'm glad I'm not Enny.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 17, 2013, 12:48:59 PM
Hey, Roswell was super nervous the first few times he spoke to someone online too, but now he likes it. You only get over fears and such by facing them. Or something.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on December 17, 2013, 01:34:27 PM
You don't have to slay 'em, just break 'em.  Much more fun that way.
Title: Re: This shades two
Post by: Fede on December 17, 2013, 05:00:01 PM
Everyone in the thread is free to guess what I said to her.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on December 17, 2013, 09:45:06 PM
Holla holla get dolla?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 18, 2013, 07:48:35 AM
Are you trying to get me to advertise Eye-Bo, Fede?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Miriam on December 18, 2013, 08:25:14 AM
I think Sands wins.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 18, 2013, 12:37:16 PM
Not sure if you really want to advertise your illegal activities online, you know. Not that it matters to me, but...
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on December 18, 2013, 01:41:38 PM
brb, fbi, cia, & dod
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 27, 2013, 01:30:32 PM
150 dollars is little now? I don't even get any presents.

DnD is great fun, surely something you both can enjoy doing together. Also you don't always need to have a dramatic backstory, try playing a character who has a family back home and has another reason to adventure. It's a nice change of pace and you can have so many different motivations.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on December 28, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
Still more presents than I got, which is nothing.

Doesn't every single adventure have to start with a tavern scene and then some basement rat hunts? That's a classic, you know.
Title: Re: Thus makes two
Post by: Fede on December 29, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
You kind of should use Eye-Bo instead of the tones, though. The tones only entrain you audibly, whereas Eye-Bo combines visual and auditory entrainment to create a stronger effect.
Title: Re: This makes twat
Post by: Fede on January 02, 2014, 04:17:51 AM
Just a reminder that you can still do that mismatch hallucinating exercise I describe in my guide. You know, the one with the pink noise and the whispering. It's in the Parroting chapter if you still you don't catch my drift. At least that doesn't require a screen like Eye-Bo.
Title: Re: This makes toward two
Post by: Fede on January 02, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
This is literally me on DnD night if I had a beard.
You're a wizard being amazed at the neon lights emitting from the tuppers you summoned?

You're fantastic Fede, I love you, and I love your taste in images, reaction and supplementary.
(http://i.imgur.com/0jMt8Io.jpg)
Title: Re: That makes two of us
Post by: Fede on January 04, 2014, 06:16:17 AM
I have a variable taste in music. Here are some samples of what I've been listening to recently, and therefore doesn't cover all of my tastes:

My only advice at this point would be to suggest things you may or may not have tried yet. For example, if you can bring yourself to it, you can try transcendental meditation involving a mantra: you sit down on your bum somewhere as comfortably as you can, relax all of your muscles as much as you can, and begin repeating the mantra calmly until you enter a trance. The mantra can be a simple sound or word of some kind, a sentence, or even multiple sounds/words/sentences that you switch between. It's usually easiest to repeat the mantra when you exhale. You know you've entered the trance when you feel overly drowsy and possibly feel like going to sleep. The trance can easily be broken by sudden movements, so make sure to do your best in staying as calm as possible. Experienced meditators can easily retain this state of trance regardless of most distractions. In this case, it'd probably be suitable of you to use the trance to, say, visualise better.

Combine with Eye-Bo for added effect. Even just being entrained by the audio helps. Maybe not as much as the visual and auditory stimulation combined, but it's still worth it for the effect.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 04, 2014, 07:08:07 AM
Doubts are normal. Forcing yourself to not doubt would make you go against something that's normal and probably make yourself doubt even more.

But until you are certain, there is no reason to make a decision. Perhaps you are depressed and that causes the feeling, instead of it being the other way around. That was everything could seem off, so even trying to make decisions like was it all a lie just sounds something that not's very well thought out. Suicidal people rarely think their suicide through, either. And then after their try, many do want to live after all.

I guess the question is, what did you believe in her now that you are doubting? Kinda implies there had to be something you believed in for you to doubt now. Her speech? Perhaps something else? I would suggest you try telling her to do things you can do and then you trying to copy them. Look very carefully at everything, feel every little difference. Even if something feels like it's 99% same, that 1% came from somewhere. If it happens all the time and you have to like say, use more conscious thoughts to parrot things, then maybe there's something very special in that 1%. Something would be different, the question is why. Maybe a tulpa? But if it's same, it's hard to say if it is the same or if you just haven't seen the difference. Not a very definite way to do anything like nothing about tuppers is, but perhaps you will learn something.

Young tuppers tend to be very connected to their hosts in like, so many ways. You could easily guess her answers because you just know her that well. You could also get her answer sorta bleed over to you before she actually says it, that does seem to happen. And man, I remember like starting to ask a question and then getting an answer back before I had even finished. It takes less time to think up questions and answers, so once those bleed over... They wouldn't even have to answer with words. Often both of you do, but I had to actually inform the tupper to not talk over me and let me actually finish the question because that was nicer. Weird little things.

The tupper journey is so personal. You two might still be way too early in the process to be hoping for things like speech out of absolutely nowhere which probably would make you feel better, but some people could get that very fast.

Oh and I forgot, when it comes to visualizing, sight was your worst sense? What about other imaginary senses, I think you were probably one of those who had good audio but there's still things like touch and smell. See if you can use them to bring out the visual part of imagination.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 04, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
For smell, there's the old trick of getting something that smells like what you want the tupper to smell like and keep it close to you when you smell the tupper, so you can smell the smell. We do have a pretty good smell memory actually, so after a while you will start to not only think of the tupper when you smell the smell but you will be able to smell it when with the tupper. Even if there is no source for the smell, except the tulpa.

As for the rest, I think you just need some time. Think about your doubts and why, you could talk to the tulpa about them as well and see what she thinks about them. Worrying won't really do much, but you can talk about your problems. But in the end, it's something you gotta figure out for yourself. Until then though, the doubt isn't going to be some TULPA POISON that will KILL YOUR TUPPER FOREVER if you just let it exist and go on despite it. There's no need to make rash decisions.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 04, 2014, 05:38:05 PM
Ah, Mountain Dew. The nectar of the neckbeards.
Title: Re: Thee makes two
Post by: Fede on January 04, 2014, 06:45:40 PM
What a healthy setup.

There's little more to say about the meditation. The repeating of the mantra is largely what helps induce the trance. But you don't seem to focus very well, so I'm not gonna go on about meditation. I did fear it wouldn't go well with you, and my fear was right.
Title: Re: He makes two
Post by: Fede on January 04, 2014, 09:05:08 PM
No. Who might he be?
Title: Re: This makes oat
Post by: Fede on January 04, 2014, 11:11:33 PM
That was easy.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 05, 2014, 06:57:18 AM
Not sure if it's the smartest ideas to post faces of yourself on a site like this unless you're fine with real life people knowing what you do, I guess.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 05, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
Your butthole is now mine, enny.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 05, 2014, 05:54:05 PM
Well, just recently a person who posted their artwork on .info got tracked down and their real name is now known to some...
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 05, 2014, 06:17:46 PM
Noo.

Well, it's just a warning. I think anonymity is really important, posting anything personal someone else might have seen at some point or is posted on another website will make you found if someone starts searching. Or just is lucky and the right person bumps into this place, someone who knows you. Be careful when posting you information or pictures online.

I would think that school makes for some good narration/wonderland adventure time. But what do I know, never was in school while forcing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 05, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
What, you need to try at school? That's new to me.
Title: Re: This makes two farts
Post by: Fede on January 05, 2014, 07:10:36 PM
Seems like a pattern that people still attending school, who find tuppers, focus on the latter instead of the former, for the worse of their grades. This is generalising, but I'm worried on your behalf. Unless you can perform parallel processing or get advantageous hallucinations in a period short enough to accommodate for your potential future losses in school, I advise you to only focus on Miriam in your free time, and not during the time that largely decides your future.
Title: Re: Farts make two
Post by: Fede on January 05, 2014, 08:23:48 PM
There's always Wolfram Alpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/) if the mathematics get too complicated.
Title: Re: This toots two
Post by: Fede on January 05, 2014, 08:47:09 PM
Blanked
No it doesn't? You don't use a computer at school? If such is the case, then I understand. Up to you.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Xenith on January 05, 2014, 11:26:34 PM
Blanked

I honestly feel bad for you, our local library is the size of an airport terminal. We have 150 public computers all dell XPS' with 4core i7's and ATI Radeon graphics, 8 public 3D printers, and all other prints are free. Hell, you can have your genome sequenced there for like $200 dollars. In Florida, we had a program called the Gifted Student Program (GSP), I wonder if your GT is any similar to that.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 06, 2014, 07:21:00 AM
Blanked

Nah come on, you just need to do lucky guesses and cheat. Also implying homework ever gets done.

I don't think I'm a very good rolemodel, huh.

Anyways. If there's one thing I can say, it's that school is awful and sucks you dry. But I can also say that life after school - at least for me - is very wonderful. This is the kind of life I've been waiting for the entire time, since I was a kid and forced to go to school. This is what I worked towards and I am very happy. Finishing school is the best moment about school, that's when you start to live. No need to worry about anything, just go through it and then enjoy what life has to offer.
Title: Re: You make two
Post by: Fede on January 06, 2014, 09:47:32 PM
But I can also say that life after school - at least for me - is very wonderful. This is the kind of life I've been waiting for the entire time, since I was a kid and forced to go to school. This is what I worked towards and I am very happy. Finishing school is the best moment about school, that's when you start to live. No need to worry about anything, just go through it and then enjoy what life has to offer.
Sure is easy when the government wants you to go to fat camp and you have little to worry about, as opposed to those of us that have a job and do our best to keep it (or even those of us without a job and no fat camps to go to).

Blanked
Reminds me of that one time Intel went on in the IRC about how he could make some random, pretty girl "his lady", despite presumably only finding her attractive, never having talked to her, and not knowing her name. Most of us called him out on merely acting on impulse and/or sex hormones. There's that. Not saying you're anything like him, I hope, but I felt like mentioning this little incident.
Title: Re: This cakes two
Post by: Fede on January 07, 2014, 11:03:01 AM
I said sex hormones, not sex and hormones. But I think you got that. Just to clear up any confusion to our dear readers.
Title: Re: This makes fart
Post by: Fede on January 07, 2014, 11:47:51 AM
Your goals regarding "the pretty girl" are petty.

But it's good to hear that progress with Miriam is doing better.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 07, 2014, 01:15:18 PM
Chicks are just dudes with an extra hole. Life advice.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 07, 2014, 04:13:56 PM
Well, bodies go every way. Very feminine men (with boobs) and very masculine chicks. And the personality is something that makes a person, niceness really doesn't have much to do with what they have between their legs. A man often is expected to act in a very competitive way while a woman is urged to be nurturing. But still, how someone treats you or acts towards you doesn't mean that's who they really are, many people put up an act for one reason or another.

And there's always exceptions.
Title: Re: Chris makes two
Post by: Fede on January 07, 2014, 08:04:09 PM
Blanked

Wait wait wait...

Blanked

"Have to"? You "have to start somewhere"? Pretty much seems to me you're still having petty goals and overthinking (yep) about a random girl you barely even know at a game store. Reminds me of that almost exact same mindset you presented many posts earlier in this thread about how you seemed to be way more focused on the looks of Miriam and the personality assumed from her form, rather than how her personality was, regardless of her form, or voice, or anything like that. Colonel right now just presented the fact to you that the gender, looks, voice, or things of that sort are not proper grounds for judgement of peoples' character, but I feel you're ignoring this, even if you'll claim that you're not. You seem to be seeking this "pretty girl" based on very scarce information and many assumptions, or even mere hopes.

Note my use of "I feel" and "seem". I'm not trying to state facts here, but rather just present my refutable opinion.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 07, 2014, 08:27:13 PM
She looked me in the eyes she totes has the hots 4 me, dood.
Title: Re: Chris makes two
Post by: Sojourner on January 07, 2014, 09:23:26 PM
Reminds me of that almost exact same mindset you presented many posts earlier in this thread about how you seemed to be way more focused on the looks of Miriam and the personality assumed from her form, rather than how her personality was, regardless of her form, or voice, or anything like that. Colonel right now just presented the fact to you that the gender, looks, voice, or things of that sort are not proper grounds for judgement of peoples' character, but I feel you're ignoring this, even if you'll claim that you're not. You seem to be seeking this "pretty girl" based on very scarce information and many assumptions, or even mere hopes.

Note my use of "I feel" and "seem". I'm not trying to state facts here, but rather just present my refutable opinion.

Is it truly possible for a personality to be entirely separate from the form/looks(be it a physical body or an imaginary one), voice, and other characteristics other people can perceive? It seems to me that a person may either try to mold their appearances to match their personality or mold their personality to match their appearances and it's rare for them to be in a complete mismatch. Even if that weren't possible, I would think an entirely formless person without a voice or body to identify with would have a harder time acquiring a personality than one which is embodied (even if we're talking about a virtual body like a tulpa's form).
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 07, 2014, 10:00:57 PM
Fuck conversation, just give her the D regardless of how she feels about it.
If you do it enough she might even get Stockholm Syndrome!
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 07, 2014, 10:15:22 PM
I expect payment in buttcoins/dogecoins.
Title: Re: This farts two
Post by: Fede on January 07, 2014, 10:43:49 PM
Don't be so hard on MegaBusta. He's our local comic relief.

Is it truly possible for a personality to be entirely separate from the form/looks(be it a physical body or an imaginary one), voice, and other characteristics other people can perceive? It seems to me that a person may either try to mold their appearances to match their personality or mold their personality to match their appearances and it's rare for them to be in a complete mismatch. Even if that weren't possible, I would think an entirely formless person without a voice or body to identify with would have a harder time acquiring a personality than one which is embodied (even if we're talking about a virtual body like a tulpa's form).
I shall manually award myself the honour of finally making you post here.

Well, you're right about the whole representation-personality interconnection. How much people mold themselves into fitting with their form or personality differs, of course. What I meant was simply that despite how much one can assume or hope from a person's representative traits like form, voice, or whatever, one is still only assuming or hoping. The true personality is something one has to uncover through other means, like interaction with, or spectation of, the person in question. There are of course the cases where someone might look cute and they incidentally happen to be cute in most ways one imagined, but like I said, those would just be assumptions and/or hopes, and they'd just so happen to be correct.

Then, of course, there are also the various associations one may have about the representative traits of the person in question, here again being things like gender, form, or voice, for instance. Like Colonel pointed out, a female may for example be frequently seen as someone leaning more towards a nurturing personality, while a male may be seen as leaning towards a masculine-like personality. How biased people are by these internal associations differs, but as far as I can tell, Enny is being rather biased by how the "pretty girl" seems, despite not knowing a lot about her personality at all.

Blanked
Hence why I referred to the mindset as being many posts ago, in the past tense. I didn't mean to make any implication about whether to not you still carry this mindset.

Blanked
What I want to know, rather, is why you feel the need to "befriend" this "pretty girl" so badly. Why her? Is this like a friendship variant of "love at first sight"? There are so many other people in the world with whom you could have a much easier time getting to know the personality. As I point out in my response to Ruffle, you seem biased towards this girl based on many assumptious and/or hopeful things about her.

Blanked
You just gotta be more social. Of course, I'm not a big expert in the social department, as I, unlike you, don't feel the need to know certain people because of whatever representative traits they have. I see grills now and then that I think look cute, sound cute, seem cute, and just overall present themselves with a general sense of cuteness. That doesn't mean I want to get to know them, since they can be very different from what my mind assumes and hopes them to be, not to mention how different I'd be from them.

What you have to consider is that most friends are made based on common interests. So, for instance, if there's some place of her interest she attends regularly, like uhh, I dunno, a club, then you'd go to that club as well and immerse yourself in the interests she has, so you both have some common ground. You know, instead of you just thinking "Oh, she looks and seems nice. I'll just go ahead and be friends with her." How you'd discover her interests is much more tricky. I wouldn't say a game store is the best place to make friends, and stalking her elsewhere would probably be a little creepy. Moreover, you may not even be her type.

This is why making friends (or a significant other) is not just a simple pick-what-you-want process. There are many factors involved.
Title: Re: Chris makes a lot
Post by: Fede on January 07, 2014, 11:47:43 PM
When Miriam one day is developed enough to be a satisfactory friend in all departments you feel empty in, maybe you'll think differently about friends in general, like me. Such is my hope either way, so that you may finally put an end to this desperate craving and start enjoying life with one that truly understands you like no one else ever would be able to.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 08, 2014, 12:00:54 AM
You might even be able to fuck 'em!
Title: Re: Chris makes two
Post by: Sands on January 08, 2014, 09:15:01 AM
Is it truly possible for a personality to be entirely separate from the form/looks(be it a physical body or an imaginary one), voice, and other characteristics other people can perceive? It seems to me that a person may either try to mold their appearances to match their personality or mold their personality to match their appearances and it's rare for them to be in a complete mismatch. Even if that weren't possible, I would think an entirely formless person without a voice or body to identify with would have a harder time acquiring a personality than one which is embodied (even if we're talking about a virtual body like a tulpa's form).

Yes.

Don't mind me Enny, taking over your diary thing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 09, 2014, 06:50:44 AM
Well, not that I don't enjoy debates and such, and while helping others to realize things one way or another is a really good thing, this isn't a personal blog but one for tulpas. A little bit of something else is always fine, but right now I feel like the topic is quickly moving away from what it should be. I require more tupper progress to feed my hunger.

You can continue the conversation of course, but I'd suggest doing that somewhere else, if you want to. Like say, Off-Topic. I can move posts around if you think the thread would be easier to follow if it had everything in it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 10, 2014, 05:23:52 AM
but the main thing that's kept me going has been everyone but Megabusta's feedback.

One day, you'll look back.

And you will regret this.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 10, 2014, 08:41:13 AM
Right, it's obvious that you guys want to continue this, but this thread isn't the right place for it. Please, don't respond here, if you think you want to respond yet again, send me a PM so I know I should move the posts to a new thread made for you. Title ideas are welcome, right now it looks like Relationships and Behavior.

Edit: And move I did. New thread (http://tulpanetwork.com/network/off-topic/relationships-and-behavior/) for the previous topic, feel free to continue it there and let's keep this one as a tupper diary, yeah?
Title: Re: This massively farts twenty-seven dorfs
Post by: Fede on January 10, 2014, 10:36:53 PM
What do you mean by not being able to "get anything out of them"? If you at any point managed to create a consonant from the noise, then great. Keep doing that. If not, keep reading.

I don't remember how long it took me to master this technique, as it was more of a thing I randomly decided to try one day and worked, albeit at that time, I could only bring out single consonants, and only faintly. The mindset you should be having is that you're not necessarily imagining or hallucinating anything in the traditional sense. Rather, it's a willing illusion. For instance, in the same way when you're listening to a song and then willingly try to focus on just one instrument, eventually being able to hear that particular instrument much more clearly, you're willingly bringing out the "S" sound of the noise. Since it's static noise, it has all the frequencies you can think of. It's just a matter of you bringing out the frequencies that the "S" and "F" sounds (and all the other consonants) have. I hope this explains the mindset that I at least had well enough.

Of course, when you've done this for a long time like me, the noise ends up not being necessary as an aiding stimulus anymore, and I guess you could say it's not so much an illusion from that point on.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 12, 2014, 05:39:49 AM
Sometimes a time-off can be really good. I hope we'll hear about you later.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 16, 2014, 05:23:10 PM
How's that feel. Some of that independent parallel processing tupper magic.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 17, 2014, 08:25:07 AM
Well, that requires practice and it's hard to say when you will finally be able to do that, but right now it's just a matter of time, eh?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on January 20, 2014, 02:09:44 AM
Go on a pirate adventure in your wonderland with your tupper.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 20, 2014, 09:43:48 AM
First thing you do is understand that you don't have a mental block.

Then you go do it without said mental block because it's all in your mind and you made it disappear. If you let yourself fall into thinking you can't do something, then you can't do it. The more you worry about it, the stronger you're making it to be. You just gotta go and do it, knowing you can do it. There's nothing stopping you.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 21, 2014, 11:26:02 AM
Well, you can't just wait or you might very well wait forever, you know?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 21, 2014, 04:17:30 PM
Even when you try to "keep it up", if you don't try to push yourself to see better then it basically amounts into you just waiting. And looking at many people who have gone through such a phase, just waiting doesn't really do much.

It can be pretty dangerous when your mindset becomes something that expects poor results.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 23, 2014, 09:04:24 AM
We've talked about visualization and some things that might help you before, what do you think is the thing that has helped you most?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 23, 2014, 02:35:57 PM
So what if you did more writing?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 24, 2014, 07:25:31 AM
What if you write what you want to see?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 25, 2014, 05:10:47 AM
Well it was something I noticed myself as well when I started it out. But everything did get better as I practiced more.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 27, 2014, 09:49:41 AM
You know what that means.

More DnD.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 28, 2014, 08:40:15 AM
I usually do my PnP roleplaying online. IRC is my favorite way because it's not like we need more than text and a dicebot, but if you want maps and such, there's programs for that. It's just hard to find a group usually.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on January 28, 2014, 03:40:13 PM
Well we all like different things. I think I enjoy writing more than talking. And emotional scenes are easier to roleplay because "dude, I'm not going to actually cry here okay" but I can definitely write about such strong emotions and you know. Make it better or something.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on February 03, 2014, 05:05:10 PM
Blanked

Hard at work on his next revolutionary tulpa technique, I assume.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 04, 2014, 08:57:42 AM
Fede's busy trying to fuck his brain to become totally insane, he'll be back in like 5 months or so.

Also copying images isn't the easiest thing to do unless you're tracing. Trying to draw what someone else has drawn can be good practice very early on, but I suggest looking at real things and drawing them. Even photos can distort how something looks and if you don't get what you're really drawing, it will end up looking a bit off. Really study the stuff and such. Do I need to tell you that I love anatomy? Because I really love anatomy oh man.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 04, 2014, 04:15:44 PM
This is now an art thread I guess.

There is only way of drawing that is not a style and that is realism. Every style is applied on top of realism, so if your realism is shit, your pretty coat of paint won't save the bad structure under it. "Style" is a way to cut corners. It's an excuse for the bad artists, screaming "IT'S MY STYLEEE" when you point out something is wrong with it.

Is cutting corners bad? Nah, that's what you do to be able to draw stuff the way you want faster than if you had to perfectly render the realism. But if you don't know what is under that style, you'll run into trouble. For ponies, first look at actual horses. Then study the style of the show. The anatomy of those marshmallow ponies is definitely linked to real life horses.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 06, 2014, 12:22:13 PM
Narrate all day every day.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 06, 2014, 04:14:40 PM
Okay but did you narrate or just talk at a wall? Yeah, combining it with other stuff is good too. I don't know if you've had this conversation with Sands before somewhere in these 20 pages, so tell me if I'm just giving you redundant advice.

Anyway, if the endgame for you is do tupper stuff then why don't you do that now? Like, you've probably heard this before but do fun stuff in your imagination. Or spend half an hour brushing your tupper's hair or something - this advice is two years old at least and it never steered me wrong; it's great because you're interacting with your tulpa, visualising hair in detail, immersing yourself in your imagination, and hopefully both you and your tulpa are having fun, all at once.

As far as personality goes, I don't think it's gonna be a good use of your time to do it at this stage. You'd be better off spending that time treating your tulpa like a person. So yeah, visualise I guess.

It definitely gets better with practice. But it also gets better with focus (or relaxing I guess) which is helped by having fun so I guess it goes back to having fun. You can play pictionary, that's good sometimes. But ideas like that are plentiful anyway and you can come up with your own.


About the underwhelming feelings, yeah, they suck. But I guess the best view to take is that it's just a WIP.
Or alternatively, take the opposite view. Forget about progress, sessions, and evaluating your tulpa like a tulpa. Evaluate them as a person instead, and do people things or whatever you'd like. Guess that goes back to having fun.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 06, 2014, 04:52:36 PM
No, the feels are good.

Well for visualisation what I'd do is try to remember something I'd seen before. Like a place, or even easier, a scene from a film or a picture or something, or maybe just stare at your hand, then close your eyes and recall what you just saw.

It's still visualisation, but you don't have to construct or conjure or hold anything, only remember. It's essentially the same as using reference images, which are stupendously helpful.

As an example of how you'd use this, what you'd do to get brushing your tulpa's hair or mane or whatever is find a close approximation of that that you can use as a reference. So maybe it's a gif of some pone getting that brushing action, be it a blue one or some other pastel colour. So you recall that with your eyes closed - or open, if you want - and then substitute your own relevant stuff on top of what's happening. Hell, if your visualisation is shite then this is easy: if you can't make out the details in the first place then all you need to do is make like it's your tupper. And there you go, you're brushing your tulpa's hair in a sort of cheating but still legit sense.


Again, I don't know what Sands and others have given you already for this. But my top points for visualisation are always
- open-eye
- references
- move around
so I guess if any of that is new then there's that.


I don't know you well enough to suggest things that you'll find fun. Go crazy and play monopoly with your tulpa. I don't know, really, but there's probably something out there that you'll enjoy. It doesn't have to 'count as forcing' or whatever, it doesn't have to be an 'exercise' or an 'activity', just something that you both enjoy doing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 07, 2014, 02:17:45 AM
I'm not really sure what you have against reference images. They are seriously helpful okay.

What I meant with moving is that it's easier to visualise something that's moving around than stationary. I guess it's not really related to feeling up your tupper - although if you find that fun then there's that too. It's more like you'd get your tupper to walk or run around while you're visualising them, rather than have them stand around.


What you're describing seems fairly typical to me, even at nine months in. So I guess it's not really something to worry or get bothered about, just acknowledge that it's something that'll improve later.


Well, the monopoly example was a bit of a joke. Playing real-life board games is a bit too crazy if you live with other people. You could play imaginary snakes and ladders - you'd probably tell me that you couldn't keep track of the pieces, but I'd reply that in that case playing the game gives you an opportunity to improve that.

It doesn't have to be a board game. That's just an unimaginative example. I don't know what you'd find fun so I can't really give you some good ideas here. But if you can't think of a single thing that night be fun to do with your tupper then man, I don't know.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 07, 2014, 08:59:52 AM
Don't underestimate how your imagination can fill in the blanks. Even if you can't draw a complete walk cycle frame by frame, you still know how it looks like when a person or thing walks if you've seen it before. Of course you might break the illusion if you look at it too closely, but you don't have to do that. And early on, it doesn't even matter if you can't see what happens too well. If it's some shape that is your tupper and it's moving then hey, guess what. You're visualizing and practicing, you might not see everything perfectly ight off the bat.

Open or closed eyes, which one is easier for someone depends on the person, but I think it's a good idea to practice using both methods. And I'm definitely the kind of a person who enjoys touching things with my hands so feeling the tupper has always helped me. As did reference images, it's much easier to remember something you saw than to create an entirely new one. I made a quick sketch of the tupper's form early on from as many sides as I wanted and every time I felt like I was losing it, I could just remember one of those. I could look at him from many different angles and even though at first it was pretty choppy, it got much better as I practiced.

Oh and because we're talking of movement, maybe you should try moving yourself as well. A bit difficult to look at the tupper that way, but you might learn to see what is around you as you run through the landscape. That helps me immerse myself well at least and it's visualization in the end. You might learn something.

Also I noticed how you said something along the lines of ignoring your own doubts and such. If you remember my absence of disbelief tl;dr I wrote way back, I did say that outright ignoring things is stupid. Mostly when it comes to responses you think might be from a tupper, but it also goes both ways. Don't ignore your own doubts. They're caused by something and ignoring them won't make the reason go away. So think about the causes and see what would ease your doubts. Of course, if you think that the only way for your doubts to go away actually first requires you to deal with your doubts to get there, you've createn an impossible situation. So think how much you really need instead of asking for the impossible.

I've seen plenty of people who say they will do all kinds of cool stuff when their tupper is imposed, but until then they think they can't do anything. I don't know why that is, seeing how there's a lot of tulpas people spend time with that aren't imposed. You might only be seeing your goal when the journey there is also pretty important and it can be fun, of course. And should be. You don't need to see a person to have fun with them, nor do you have to actually talk to a person to have fun with them. Of course it's usually more or less only one of those you can do at a time, but well. Those who are deaf and blind still manage to have fun with others somehow.

If you only like a few things and you think you can't share those hobbies with someone else (the tupper in this case), then how about getting new hobbies. Oh sure, "but I don't care about anything else!/I can't do something else!". Once you start doing only one thing and being lazy, it starts to look really hard to actually do something new. Feels impossible. Often happens to people who have been unemployed for a while and basically do nothing but sleep and eat all day. It becomes very hard for them to actually motivate themselves to do something, but once they try, they might see it actually wasn't so bad and it's fun. A person who never tries to do new stuff or never wants to change will stagnate and grow stubborn in a bad way. It's not a pretty sight, believe me.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 07, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
I guess if you're still allowed to read and listen to music then you could do that with your tulpa. You know, like how you might with another person, roughly speaking.

Talking about walk cycles, I guess you've preemptively vetoed my suggestion of getting some references up of that. Yes, you could definitely use more practice. It might take looking at some reference over and over again until you've really memorised it, but at least you get to stare at ponies for however long that takes.

Well, if you can't move around well then that's less than ideal. But I guess that you should practice that, then. Hell, set yourself a small target, just to be able to move smoothly, or to hold one particular reference image. It'd give you something close to head towards, at least.


Okay for a lot of people doubts are a big deal. I suppose you've heard everything there is to hear about a good mindset and so on. But my advice to you is that if something feels bad, don't do it. Okay, that response felt fake? Fine, it was. Then you can try to deal with it.

But at the same time, you shouldn't try to second-guess yourself. That means no 'subconscious suppression' or whatever. You should make a decision on something purely by its content and how it felt.

How people continue? I guess the people that do aren't afraid to admit that their tulpa can't do this and that. More than doubt, they may be certain that they get weak and fake-ish responses. And instead of that being a sticking point, they can take that in their stride as simply something that needs work.

How to actually do the improving is another matter, yes. But once you've got to that you only have that problem rather than that and a load of stuff about doubt. Which is easier to deal with.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 13, 2014, 08:23:08 AM
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. Even the definition is a bit different with some, some meaning you know, nothing but actual emotions and some including headpressure and such in there as well. I know that I was the kind of a person who never really felt the emotions because I just didn't notice them or brushed them off.

Play tic tac toe with tupper.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on February 13, 2014, 12:08:57 PM
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. Even the definition is a bit different with some, some meaning you know, nothing but actual emotions and some including headpressure and such in there as well.
Quote
An emotional response could be anything and feel like anything. The definition varies so wildly between different people that all bets are off whether yours are the same as mine.
Is there any point even trying then? An emotional response is when your tulpa tells you to burn things.

How to play tic tac toe? You make move, tulpa makes move, and so on until you draw. Then play again. Ad infinitum.
It's better to play ultimate tic tac toe, but I guess if your tulpa isn't a master strategist then you haven't a hope in hell of playing coherently. Oh well.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 13, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
Oh man but my tupper never told me to burn things. Must have a faulty tupper, can I return it?

Tic tac toe is the best tupper game.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 14, 2014, 07:42:26 AM
She has spoken before, you say. You just doubt that it was her now. But if you've stopped listening then you're ignoring so much you will probably never hear her, so...

Touch is always nice.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 14, 2014, 04:17:23 PM
You got what you thought was a response and then you tried it over and over again until you could mimic it perfectly? Or it has always felt the same as now, something you can replicate 100%? Because no shit, if you practice then you can make everything seem the same. The thing is, has it always felt like it has been the same. If you had to practice to make it seem identical then what made it different in the first place? Why did you have to put all that effort in to learn to replicate something that happened naturally a moment ago?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 16, 2014, 03:41:11 PM
Again, the first vocal responses I got from Roswell I doubted. They felt so much like what I could do, not at all what people said it would be like back then. I could have ignored them all. I didn't, I listened even if I didn't believe in them at all, gave it some time. Found something to convince me. I'm here with a vocal tupper now. Maybe I still would have one if I didn't listen back then, but I'm pretty sure it would have taken me many months after that.

If you've already made your mind that it was fake like you obviously have reading at your previous comments, it's going to be hard to hear anything. We don't know, maybe it was fake. Maybe it wasn't. Some tuppers take a while to be able to talk while other hosts are absolutely fucking deaf. What I can say is that I've heard a similar story before and well. I did write that thing about absence of disbelief instead of blindly believing and ignoring for a reason.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 17, 2014, 10:08:15 AM
I did timers myself as well, that way I couldn't just do it until I felt it was enough and then find out I had done it for just a few minutes when I wanted to get a longer session done. With an alarm ready, you don't have to worry about the time at all as you will know when it's over. And after that, you can continue if you think you can or should.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 19, 2014, 12:20:43 PM
Well yeah. Usually includes something a bit more, like switching or imposition skills to really get it super vivid and feel... I dunno, solid, you know. But in the end, what those two have is ignoring physical senses so they don't get in the way of the imaginary ones and the other is just making your visualization skills so awesome you can hallucinate. With practice, even if you don't get to switching or imposition or if they're not your goals, you could get pretty damn good at seeing stuff and use similar methods of your own to get there.

And I guess some have tried to use lucid dreaming to help with their tupperforcing, dunno how that would go but maybe you would want to try it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 22, 2014, 04:54:51 AM
Only way to get to it is to just do it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 24, 2014, 09:03:02 AM
How would you talk with someone who is mute?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 24, 2014, 04:44:51 PM
No paper, gotta handle the situation with a mute person, maybe you were in an accident and now you two are in the middle of nowhere with no one else.

Gogogo.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 25, 2014, 09:57:05 AM
Mute tuppers can also respond in some way.

You could make the imagination game even harder and decide that the mute person is also paralyzed and blind. WHAT WOULD YOU DO roll initiative.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on February 25, 2014, 09:59:44 AM
I roll to kick them while they're down.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 26, 2014, 08:35:03 AM
Well you can ask for the stuff, but if it hasn't ever happened before then you're most likely not getting it right away like that. Or perhaps you just can't notice it yet, because it could be super weak. And hell, even when I noticed stuff early on, I wasn't able to connect the dots until much later.

But you're sounding like you have already decided the tupper can't do some of that stuff, which could affect you in a negative way. Once you start mentally blocking possible ways of her contacting you, you're not left with much. Attitude change might help here, instead of "nothing" it's just "not yet". Keep the methods open instead of telling your easily manipulated brain that something doesn't or won't happen. Negative stuff gets stuck super easily and nocebo is a thing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 27, 2014, 08:37:23 AM
Relax and don't worry about it. Follow your own gut feeling, be calm. No need to be rash or anything.

Have you ever worked with clay or something like it? Including touch into visualization that way can be really useful if it's already something you know how to do somewhat. Touch your tulpa's form as if you were molding it, feeling every little nook and cranny that their body should have if you were the one who has to mold it with your own hands. You could do the entire body very detailed or loose at first, or just take one part and really concentrate on feeling that one from every direction. The wrinkles, the pores, the hair... It all is there, if you wish to feel it. And well, massage is always something you could do, too.

Any visualization can help you to get better at visualization, of course. And narration is good too, so it's great that you have managed to make it a thing and stick with it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 02, 2014, 05:07:12 AM
You can easily hate any kind of method of creating art when you'e not very good at it and can't translate how you want it to look to the real world with your own hands. That's why it might be better to not have a solid idea and instead do something, shaping it as you go. Let your own hands decide how it should look and feel, working with clay should feel nice. At least I think so. Pottery has never been my thing and that's usually the only kind of thing you get to do if you take courses, but I think it's more fun to just make weird little things and statues out of it. Just get out a piece, work it so it's soft and easy to make into something else and start playing with it.

Head pressure would be pretty helpful, so do keep an eye on that and see where it goes.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 04, 2014, 08:58:00 AM
That's why it's usually better to buy your own clay or some other material. It's not very expensive, you don't need much of it and you certainly don't need anything fancy unless you're trying to make something you can eat and drink out of, I guess. Start simple and it's less like practice and more like doing simple things which will actually be finished and look like they're supposed to look.

Earlier, when you thought your tupper was vocal, you seemed pretty excited and happy about it. You did stuff with the tupper. Is that what you want?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 04, 2014, 03:57:33 PM
Sounds to me like you have tons of issues with your parents.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 05, 2014, 08:55:06 AM
My point is, your home life doesn't sound very encouraging or happy. An environment where people who don't really want to do anything are raised, because everything they might want to do is immediately shot down for one reason or another. And that affects your entire life. Getting quite off-topic here, but I'd say the root of many of your problems is found here.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 07, 2014, 08:18:15 AM
Dunno about you, but our teachers constantly say that school is never the only place for learning and parents must help their kids as well. They do what they can at schools, parents have to do what they can outside of school. Our school systems are very different and there's not much you can do about not being able to go to the good, expensive schools without money... But punishment instead encouraging and helping is never a way to raise a child. You'll only get someone scared of trying to do anything new, someone who will grow to resent their parent(s) and someone who barely has anything to call their own. Not many ways to enjoy life.

And that's something no one deserves in my eyes. Considering you're not even allowed to be who you are and express parts of yourself. Sounds like torture.

Parroting is a valid method. I dunno if there's any method that isn't valid, as this is mostly about making your own mind do weird stuff. Mindset is what is the key and you're going to need some confidence in what you're doing. Try different things and see which one feels the best, it's so personal that none of us will have a similar way of creating tuppers, even if we follow guides.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 08, 2014, 01:27:31 PM
That's still enough for you to be taken away from him if someone in power found out. So keep that in mind.

No experts here except you. Too personal and only you will know if it feels right. Things can feel off. They probably will, rarely do people get those super alien voices out of nowhere but it does happen. But then it's just a matter of learning to trust. The story for many of us is that at some point, there is just too much of something different for us to continue thinking that it may or may not be the tupper. Too many surprises, too many things out of nowhere we didn't think of, things we never thought the tulpa would say, stuff we never had before in our lives, very different opinions from your own. Getting called out on shit you think is alright but they think is wrong. Don't know about you, but when there's so much of that and it takes you off guard... What is it if not a tupper? While we don't know if tuppers really are sapient or anything, at least we know that's how they should seem. And that's what they will seem like, with enough time and care. Stupid to keep doubting at that point.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 17, 2014, 05:40:02 AM
Well, if you need a break then take a break. Might be a good idea to at least say good morning and good night every day, as that doesn't really take much.

You do have good visualization skills and focus, just not when it comes to tuppers. Perhaps you could involve the tulpa when you have your usual daydreaming sessions by you know, showing it to them. Like you're making them a little play. You could tell them some side comments here and now, but you like to work on the roleplaying characters. I know that feeling, it's different than working on a tupper seeing that you get to control everything about a character while you're sorta aiming for not controlling a tulpa. But it doesn't mean you can't do those things together, even if you're not staring at the tulpa while doing it. They're there with you, more or less always.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 18, 2014, 08:29:31 AM
That kind of stuff is just fine. As for it being so simple you can't think of anything to say about it, imagine that your listener is even simpler than that. They probably aren't, but I've yet to hear of a tupper that would rather not listen to even the simple stuff if the alternative is nothing at all. And well hey, if you do happen to piss them off somehow, that might end up generating responses...

As for what to say, you could explain the people that are in the play, their character, their personality. Just by doing stuff alone you are doing that, but you can add words. You don't even have to add too many, maybe we're finding a new narration method here that is nothing but images. Those already would tell a lot about yourself. I guess the things that might require explaining are when a character does something where their motives might not be obvious. So you could say why they're doing it. What is important is knowing that someone else is watching and this someone else is your tupper.

Tuppers tend to know a lot about you. Yours is most likely no exception, so she has seen it all. Everything.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 21, 2014, 09:42:06 AM
Us humans have this funny way of being around other people and thus knowing how people are supposed to work. That's why the uncanny valley effect exists, I guess. You don't have the same amount of familiarity with the pony form, so I guess it makes sense you can work with a human body better. Easier for your brain to fill in the blanks.

Glad to hear that you're starting to enjoy visualization a bit more. This is why I think it's important to try new things. You never know what might work for you and we won't either, any crazy idea you get is worth a shot just in case it does work for you. Keep up the good work, now. Being able to see the tupper could easily help you get to vocality, as at least in my personal experience, body language came before speech. And that can already tell you a lot.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 21, 2014, 10:20:22 AM
Often, just like with speech, surprising things will start happening at some point. Could that still be you? Maybe. Maybe tuppers are always "just you". But hey, if they can surprise you and do things you thought they never would, that sounds pretty close to what we want out of a tupper. At least something that seems autonymous, even if it isn't. We don't really know what a tulpa is for sure. But us hosts do have to learn to let things just happen. Even heavy parroting users like Fede claim that things just happen these days and he's not consciously controlling anything. So whatever you do, you'll probably get to the end in one way or another as long as you continue.

Of course, some people swear on the prism trick and if you have a lot of trouble focusing on many objects, it might help you as well. Imagine a prism on top of the tulpa's head/snout/whatever, and imagine a feather on top of the prism. Keep the feather in balance and concentrate on the prism and the feather. If the tulpa moves after that, it's supposedly not puppeting. Not foolproof of course, but it might work, once you're comfortable enough with trying it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 21, 2014, 11:18:56 AM
Hey, that's why I wrote a long ass post about the absence of disbelief. That's the key, not blindly believing or ignoring everything, even possibly legit responses. We're doing SCIENCE, you need to screw up the brain first for the best SCIENCE.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 21, 2014, 02:43:27 PM
I don't think there's really anything that's "nothing productive" when making tuppers. Like I said, even those who have done nothing but parroting and never really stopping on purpose have gotten tulpas. I don't think you can go much more "wrong" than that, controlling the tulpa yourself the entire time. Still they somehow find a way to become distinct and at least seemingly autonymous.

There's no one method or way that works for everyone. Embrace the SCIENCE.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 21, 2014, 04:43:16 PM
There is no SCIENCE class. SCIENCE is fun and not taught in school. Because it would be too SCIENCE.

You should just chill. When there's no rules, there's no limits. There's no wrong or right. You just try all kinds of crazy stuff until something works the way you want it to. You shouldn't let something that has no way of confining you to, you know, make you feel trapped. This is about as free as you can get.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 01, 2014, 05:36:50 AM
How do you get kicked out of home at your age? Is that even legal? Got some other place to go to, though?

Damn it took me long to figure it out.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 01, 2014, 02:16:10 PM
Guess we'll see if this continues on the 2nd day of April.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 01, 2014, 06:35:34 PM
Time zones, so they all were posted on April 1st for me.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 02, 2014, 05:04:32 AM
Well second for me now so I'll bite, eh?

Sure this is starting to go quite off-topic and some other area might be better for discussing it, but it's a pretty big thing and I understand if you do want to talk about it. Or even need to talk about it. Hard to say if this is really a good thing, but this far your dad hasn't been very supporting from the sound of things. If you can manage to live with someone else who does enjoy your company, to me it seems like it could end up being better for your current situation. Make you feel a bit different maybe.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 05, 2014, 03:01:17 PM
I suggest you go and get help. This sounds more and more like an abusive relationship when you speak of such fear and outside help would help a lot. Either someone to help you mediate between your dad and you or help you find a new home, if things go that bad.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 06, 2014, 04:44:28 AM
I repeat my earlier statement.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 06, 2014, 06:33:35 PM
Your mental well-being is also an issue. It's not really an issue of what he does, what is an issue is that you don't feel safe, you can't sleep and you're feeling miserable because of your situation. Turn it around. Don't concentrate on trying to make others see what he does wrong but show them the real symptoms you are suffering because of what you are going through. Be honest about them.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 07, 2014, 05:15:03 AM
Well by the time you no longer can hold it in and break down crying, I'm sure you'll be taken seriously. You might also want to try changing the people you talk to, like maybe call one of those help lines or whatever you got around. They might be able to direct to you to people who care if you explain them no one listens.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 07, 2014, 03:24:38 PM
Well, I could say a lot about parents like that as I've seen plenty of them and they tend to act crazy enough for me to think that there's something wrong with them. Either something physical like hyperthyroidism or maybe they got something wrong with their head, paranoia or schizophrenia or something. But I don't think you want to hear all that.

The truth is that you are having symptoms and there's a reason for that. Even if it would be you "just" overreacting, you're still feeling it and suffering. That's why it has to be dealt with. And protip, usually if you're wondering if you're overreacting, you're probably not. The people who truly overreact without a reason rarely doubt themselves there.

If you call some help line, they won't know who you are or where you live. There's no way they could tell your father. But they could tell you more about your rights in your country. As for school, I always suggest people to at least do the minimum they need to be able to get employed easily. Yeah, >implying you can get a job easily with this job market, but cut me some slack here. Don't want the only reason you can't get the perfect job for you to be some piece of paper you're missing.

Sure, I can give you a schedule. Every day you must start your day by saying good morning to tupper. You could also tell them what you're planning to do or what kind of a dream you saw. You must also spend a certain amount of time with your tupper every day, how it's spent doesn't matter. It could be visualizing their form or talking to them about something or touching them or whatever, anything you want to do at the moment. How much it is would have to fit you, but I'd say something like an hour each day has to be spent with your tulpa. You can split it into smaller sections and do something like 15 minutes every forcing session, but what's important is that every day, you do an hour. At least an hour, you can do more. And that's the only way you can skip a day, if you know you're gonna be busy an entire day at some point, you're going to have to force the missing hour on the previous days. If you don't do an hour and haven't done the hours in, you get a big frowny face sticker. And every night before you go to bed, you say good night to tupper. You could also tuck them in and tell them what you want to do tomorrow or about your day. Go do it fgt.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 09, 2014, 05:17:24 AM
Get a stopwatch of sorts, but if you're in a situation where you can't count... Then you can't count the time you do towards your required time.

Don't feel weird because of a human body. Anything can be touched and stared at for SCIENCE. The tuppers do the same to you, too. Just don't think that it's anything naughty and it really isn't. There's a difference between staring at porn and staring at naked people to study anatomy. And that difference in inside your head.

A wonderland bed, mate. Go tuck tupper in a wonderland bed. She could of course be in the same bed as you and that might be interesting for the reasons you mentioned, but all that would be quite busy so late when you should be sleeping, so have it be some special thing. Not something you do every night. But use an imaginary bed for her. Remember the goodnight kisses.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 09, 2014, 11:18:16 AM
Hey, if your tupper doesn't like it, they'll let you know. For SCIENCE. And I'll assume you have never had naked models to draw. Drawing from life is the greatest thing ever, if you have an ability to have nude people pose while you draw them, I suggest you go. It helps so much with drawing and learning anatomy.

Pull covers over person, that's tucking someone in for sure. And do whatever else you want I guess, up to you really. Fluff pillows if you really feel like it or braid the tupper's hair. It's all just spending time together.

Try your narration thing and report back, I guess.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 09, 2014, 03:33:35 PM
Good, good. Keep doing that narration.

Well really, socking a tupper in the jaw isn't anything bad either, really. They could choose to not feel a thing, as it's all imaginary senses anyways. If that's your way of saying hi, then... Go ahead?

Drawing from life is awesome and it is what actually teaches you how stuff looks like. Like I've said earlier, realism is the only thing that isn't a style. Styles are applied on top of realism, so if your realism sucks, your stylistic drawings will also be off. But there's always other things you enjoy drawing more than the rest, so I for example wouldn't really enjoy drawing chairs either but living things like humans and animals, those would be awesome. Even if they're not really alive at that point anymore. A skull study would be cool too, just because I have this design that requires a cow skull-like head on a creature...

No need to feel awkward because of nudity, though. You Americans, stop giving us more stereotype fuel!

Give tupper Rapunzel hair, brush hair forever.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 10, 2014, 07:51:54 AM
Sorry, the American stereotype is that all of you are extremely squeamish of seeing nude people. Seeing your family members naked would also be about as bad as incest while where I live (which is none of those places you mentioned, hah) that would be pretty normal. Reminds me, I sort of recently saw this play in theater where the actor suddenly removed his clothes and was completely naked. I laughed in my mind thinking that if this had happened in the glorious USA, he would have been sued for sexual harassment...

I know you're interested, but I'm sorry to say that he was nothing to write home about.

Keep texting, you need to do an hour every day! Don't slack off now or you'll get a frowny sticker.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 10, 2014, 10:39:42 AM
Finns never were vikings, so that's one point you lost there. You'll have to live with the mystery.

In your texting case, how many you send might be better than logging time. But if you actually talk or visualize and you have a possibility to time it, do so.

Your first responses could really happen in any possible way and there's no one set method, either. In my case, I guess I liked telling him to talk or asked him questions and then tried to clear my mind without you know, stopping everything from happening? It's funny, a similar method was told to me when I was starting out and I didn't understand it before I managed to actually get it to work. You don't want to be thinking too much or else you might overpower a faint voice, but you can't also forcibly stop every thought going on in your head or you might as well accidentally force the tupper quiet, too.

Though some people use a completely opposite method of filling their head with thoughts and seeing if they manage to hear something that's off and going from there. And it's also possible that the tupper isn't able to talk back to you right now.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 11, 2014, 08:41:41 AM
What things do you know much about? Perhaps make a list of subjects for every forcing session and talk about them for as long as you can? Like maybe your favorite tv shows or something, explain the characters and the story and the setting in detail. And some cool PLOT TWISTS or something. Or maybe you like animals and you can tell someone a lot about them. Or cooking. Favorite foods, how they are prepared, what do you need for them, why do you like them etc.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 11, 2014, 09:42:40 AM
Sure, sounds cool. And I'm sure you know a lot more. There's movies you have watched, cartoons you have liked, stuff you have played, things you have read. All of those are possible narration fodder. You're just shooting yourself in the foot by not thinking you have anything, but sorry to say... You haven't grown up in a bubble. You know more.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 11, 2014, 12:00:15 PM
Surely you can talk more about those things. You're writing it all down, you don't even have to plan what you say out perfectly. Just write things that pop into your mind. That Legolas guy was an elf. The guy who wrote the books loved doing conlangs and created tons of languages, some for the elves to use. They're pretty cool.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 11, 2014, 05:16:21 PM
You're the one making it difficult. Just write it down, I bet that once you manage to get over your limitations, you'll make some faster progress. Really, you might have been called useless or worthless or good for nothing or something during your life one time too many, but that doesn't mean it's the truth. But you can make it the truth by listening to them and never trying again.

Not sure how much I could help anyone with colors, but you could post more in off-topic or something if you're really serious about it. Present us what you already know, maybe some colors you would like to use so we have something to start with.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 14, 2014, 05:45:55 AM
Do you have any cool parks? Do you like window shopping? Going for a walk with the tupper can be Great Fun. As for vocality, can't say I really bought it or thought it was that cool when I first it got it happening, but it got better as time went on.

Also frowny faces for your shitty weekend. You have to make in the hours or you can't not do anything. A schedule won't work if you don't bother sticking to it.

And because there was actually some tupper-related stuff there, I guess I can comment on the colors of a character. The ponies are all pretty saturated and bright, but if you just pick the super saturated colors then our eyes will bleed. You're going to have to start picking and deciding where you want the contrast to be. Dark mane, light body, vice versa or maybe even dark/dark, light/light? Is one of the colors going to be paler, less saturated to help with making the pony look nicer? Because the ponies usually seem to have their name connect to their appearance and/or personality, I guess Airy Blue would give you one color to start with which is some shade of blue and a theme of air.

But what do you do with that blue? Will there be other colors? You could either go with all blue shades which should compliment each other nicely, or you could go to the close neighbors of green and purple, perhaps with a bit of a blue-ish tint. Or you could throw in oranges, red and yellows for contrast. The eye especially could be whatever striking, super saturated color you want, that's how the whatever generation ponies these are look.

But if you ask me and give me the name of "Airy Blue"... I would say a light blue body, probably pretty saturated and white mane/tail with one, darker blue stripe on both. For some contrast. Makes me think of a summer sky which in my eyes would be pretty bright and full of clouds, you know. Some actual colors, eh, have links I guess, Wikipedia to the rescue.

Body colors you might want to think of: Baby Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_blue), Celeste (or any of the other lighter "sky blue" colors) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_blue#Celeste), Tiffany Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_Blue)

For the stripe: International Klein Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Klein_Blue), Persian Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_blue), Medium Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_blue#Medium_blue), Egyptian Blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_blue)

For the eye, it could be anything you want really, but I think some really saturated blue would look nice. Sort of something like the medium blue above, to tie it in with the hair color stripes. But it could really be something like orange if you want.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 15, 2014, 04:29:49 AM
Hey, I'd love to visit a Walmart. They're pretty big and full of stuff, aren't they? Don't have any around me, so I need one giant super store to window shop in. Be sure to hold your tupper's hand in public so you can start dropping spaghetti when you two move in a position where your hand should be held in an awkward position.

Though you could try reading and watching movies with a tupper, obviously. For narration purposes, it might be better to rewatch things you already have so you don't get too distracted by it, if you're very into it. You might also want to put something to remind yourself of the tupper somewhere you can see or feel it, so you'll remember.

Certainly did do a good amount of personality forcing back in the day. I don't really think I was following one single method, but I wanted to start with personality anyways. I'm not sure how much a tupper would be affected by personality forcing as they really become something after they've experienced the world for a bit, but it's definitely narration if nothing else. With a very limited subject. So in a way, that can be easier, you can just make a mantra you repeat over and over again without having to think too much, just focus on ~~feels~~.

So yeah, 5 to 10 minutes for a trait could be really difficult unless you have a lot to say, but it's a different story if you're not afraid of repeating. That's why this step of the creation process has been boring for many and why many no longer do it or suggest doing it. But hey, try stuff and see what sticks.

But really, saying good morning or good night should not be a chore. When you're feeling lazy, it takes a couple of seconds and you have no excuse. If you want to spend more time with the tupper then, you certainly can. But the minimum is a couple of seconds.

As for the pone, with a name like Auburn, red hair is nice I guess. Those colors are rather muted and muddy, which at least means that there's no eye burn, but next to all the other marshmallow ponies... They're going to end up looking a bit strange. The ponies in the show are usually very vibrant and saturated. Contrast between desaturated and saturated could be nice though, so I suggest playing around a bit. Leave the pelt how it is and make the hair really like a sunset or something.

+1 naked tupper
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 15, 2014, 08:44:54 AM
In most cases, what is hard is just starting it out. You keep putting the task you gotta do away because you think it's going to either be awful or you need to do something special. But in this case, it's a couple of words. Few seconds off your life given to the tupper. It's just a matter or saying those words.

The thing with forcing, the best method really is your own method. That's why the early ones were super strict, because they didn't know that yet. But know we know anything can work and the best method is the one that just happens to work for you. I do know where you're coming from, back then we had schedules and methods easily laid out for us. Do x for y time. Can't get much simpler than that. Some people just need simple instructions and too much freedom is just going to hurt them.

But remember, even though you're overwhelmed, that freedom is really on your side. There is no right or wrong way so you can't ruin everything if you decide to do something. So yeah, follow the old ways if you want to, plenty of us made tuppers back then too, following those very guides. Just don't get too stuck on anything, if something else feels better then try that instead, go wild.

When other artists draw your characters, they'd surely appreciate a reference sheet with exact colors listed, heh. Right now these two look so different I would think that they're different characters. Though I guess if you're not sure, getting artists to draw their own version so you can pick your favorite is a good idea too.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 15, 2014, 11:26:41 AM
Well all are different. Back then it was nothing but strict guidelines, now it's avoiding those strict guidelines because they hurt some. But total freeform is going to hurt others. This community is far from having the perfect way to help others with their tupper problems, but perhaps with time it'll evolve again. Be something less extreme and meet somewhere in the middle when it comes to the methods, so all kinds of people will find the best method to guide them through the process.

It's simple to see why you have a lack of progress. Because you don't really do anything, you see everything as a chore and you probably are one of those master procrastinators. You can say "lazy", sure. You're in a bit of a tricky situation as far as your life goes, in a way it could be the perfect opportunity for you to get away from it all for a moment and spend all that time with a tupper, yet you're stressing constantly about it. So that leaves you pretty exhausted mentally if not also physically. Not the ideal time to force.

Okay it's Theory Tuesday. Minimal work might work for some and in some of these cases, this minimal work might require like, years. Many years. Working on it constantly and really focusing on greating a tupper is of course going to give you faster results.

I guess we can wonder how a tupper is created and that's where we start forcing theories down everyone's throats. I think I can say for certain that I got a voice in my head, of others I can't be sure. So I have created a voice that responds to me and I haven't had it before. So we went from no voice/another personality in my head to a scenario where there is one. Question is why, isn't it? Ton of work, but that also makes us ask how the hell that really works.

I don't know anything for certain, but the moment I read about this whole tupper thing, I just went "sure, why not", accepting that it might be possible. The power of our mind can be pretty amazing and that's why I sort of linked this to placebo. A person can be given fake medicine they think works and it can actually truly work, despite not having anything that should make them feel better, so their mind basically creates a real effect. In some cases, this fake medicine is even better than the real one, so that's pretty amazing.

I believe a tupper is basically created when you fool yourself to believe that there is someone in your head when there really isn't. Before you start, there isn't one in your head, of course. Assuming you don't have a history with sapient imaginary friends. It's just a process of fooling yourself into thinking it exists through a lot of work, forcing and narration and such. And as with placebo, I would think that the effect could be real and actually give you that voice in your head, even though it didn't exist before. Might be more difficult because you're aware of what you're doing and you're not fooled into it like with placebo medicine tests, but certainly possible. I think we're proof of that.

It's all about the mindset. Forcing is just fooling yourself into thinking you're talking to someone else when there is no one. You get a tupper once your mind is fooled enough. If you can't even say "hi" to this other person, I'd say you don't think there really is another person in your head, which leads into no progress and no tupper. The first step is to treat them like another person, one with their own wants and needs and dreams and whatever. A person you spend time with. I hope you enjoyed your Theory Tuesday.

As for the ponies, if you make me imagine "auburn skies", then I would think of a setting or a rising sun and the sky when it's full of beautiful reds and oranges. I think the orange/brown aka auburn hair would fit the name better and you do tend to pair your redheads with green eyes pretty often, but it's a rather boring hair color for a cartoon marshmallow pony. A bit too realistic and plain. So I would make it flashier and more vibrant.

But I guess muted, neutral and normal colors could fit a very down to earth character. A wallflower, no one special. Or at least one who doesn't think they're special.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 16, 2014, 08:08:21 AM
Wait, that pone's supposed to be a male? Did your artists know that?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 16, 2014, 11:16:15 AM
Hey, you can have a feminine dude still look like a dude unless you want the joke to be that they're a trap....

And now this thread has been derailed.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 16, 2014, 02:03:20 PM
Well when you already want something the show doesn't allow, then throw the show's rules out of the window. The artstyle is so simple that's really the only way they can make it clearly obvious what is a dude and what is not. But often, tips to make your guy look more like a guy is to have less round shapes. Bushier eyebrows maybe, longer snouts for your ponies. Maybe add hooves and feathers like many of the male characters have. Or smaller eyes. Perhaps longer limbs or a sturdier build, depending on what kind of a body type you want the pony to have. The ponies in the show, as far as I know, only have few body and face types. Limiting yourself to those seems a bit silly, but hey. Also you could give them more masculine haircuts, long hair can look masculine or feminine depending on how it's styled I guess.

Here (http://anonmgur.com/up/29d094508f80e3b2d2447001e5da0d95.png), it's still a dude looks like a lady with pretty girly hair as I have no idea how you look like and I only have these pictures to go from, but I dunno. Maybe someone might actually wonder if it's a dude or a chick instead of just instantly thinking chick. Also don't expect much because it's a really fast sketch with a thick brush and I can't into marshmallow pones.

There's some narration fodder for you.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 16, 2014, 02:29:50 PM
Sure thing, many chicks like pretty boys and many others enjoy traps. But when it comes to character creation, you want it to fit the character. Mostly if us viewers confuse the character's gender, then do all the characters in the story or whatever also do the same mistake? If they don't, why? You can get some pretty good character building stuff from that.

And I can't say I really know "I'll just keep the pone how it is" means, when you've given me two completely different pictures which don't even look like the same character...

I guess if your tupper's form is something you can obsess over, it can be easier. If you have a character in mind then I guess you can use it as the tupper's form as long as you want. Or they, if they manage to grow bored of it before you do.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Roswell on April 17, 2014, 01:23:39 PM
Having motivation is all you need. As long as you actually are also willing to act on it instead of sitting around, haha.

I wish you good luck. Please spend a lot of time with your tulpa.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Roswell on April 21, 2014, 06:30:34 AM
Everything around you has a story. Objects around you, furniture, your clothes. Where did you get them, what do they make you feel? Has anything happened to you around them? If you run out of things to say, just look around, haha. There is no subject that is too boring, just hearing your voice can brighten someone's day. Do not be too critical of yourself and what you say. It doesn't matter.

I am glad you have managed to do more narration.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 22, 2014, 08:26:09 AM
Oh man. Watercolors. Don't think it's easy, I have the exact same problem as you. Everything ends up being brown if I start mixing colors and my brushwork is just plain awful. That's why if I have to paint, I prefer something where I can work with layers. So I can first paint one layer and then wait for it to dry and then keep on painting, to avoid everything becoming fucking brown again. So much hate.

I dunno, maybe you would like to try acrylic paint. Dries fast and it's so thick you can easily cover mistakes with another layer. Mixing colors is an artform itself, man. Mix lemon yellow with ultramarine and you get this odd olive color, while mixing lemon yellow with the cooler Prussian blue gives you more vibrant greens, depending how much you use blue. Could either be lime or emerald or something.

I guess the hint is to look at the colors as you mix them. A cool red is going to have a bit of a pink/magenta/purple shade to it, so cool reds make for better purples when you mix it with warm blues. While the warm red is more of an orange shade and will thus obviously make for a better orange when mixing it with warm yellows, which also are more of an orange shade than the more green-ish cool lemon yellow.

But luckily being pissed at this stuff at least gives you a lot to rant to the tupper, huh.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 27, 2014, 04:14:25 AM
Well? Did something happen? Don't leave us hanging bro.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 29, 2014, 05:02:36 AM
Why apologize to me? Apologize to the tupper. Write a letter and read it to them.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 02, 2014, 04:51:02 AM
15 minutes is more than none.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 03, 2014, 04:49:42 AM
Narrating PnP RPG rules to a tupper could be something. Or at least explaining your character idea/s to them and how you're planning on building them and what things would be cool to get. In that case, it should at least be easy to jump into rule explanations, as you might want to explain someone a reason why you would like to have a certain spell or special sword or something. You know, tell what the numbers mean.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 08, 2014, 05:07:57 AM
It was a robot.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on May 08, 2014, 12:14:13 PM
Blanked
(http://i.imgur.com/vK3MQND.gif)

Now that's just absurd.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 10, 2014, 04:57:01 AM
I believe he's mostly giggling at the fact that you were so traumatized by a pony fic. I guess it's pretty bad when it's any fiction if it affects you that much but hey.

.info's progress reports tend to be things people just read to get some hilarious tulpa thread simulator lines out of. Seriously, haven't met anyone who hasn't been pasting me the most ridiculous lines if they've ever started reading progress reports. Maybe you'll get lucky, but it just seems like no one serious reads the PRs there anymore.

Good luck to you both, I guess. I've never heard Dreamy's side of the issues so I don't really know what he's going through.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 11, 2014, 05:39:20 AM
Fede will be back when he's insane enough. Or something.

Or he already died of food poisoning.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on May 11, 2014, 01:14:19 PM
Or he already died of food poisoning.

Ribs' n' peas.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 15, 2014, 12:49:18 PM
Wow look, was this like your first very long(?) session you've told about to us? Sounded good though. Now if you can keep that up...

Eat cake with tupper.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 16, 2014, 05:29:37 AM
Well you can always eat cake with tupper. Maybe special cake for special days and/or things. Also remember the massages, it's some real good practice for feeling the skin, muscles and bone.

Next post here will be the 1000th post in diaries.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 16, 2014, 09:04:07 AM
Well twenty minutes is a lot based on your standards, so I'd say that's still good. Next topic should be cats, because you need to talk about cats too. And more massages.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 17, 2014, 04:57:35 AM
Just do whatever and feel that body, boy. You can touch your own body to know where bones go and maybe study anatomy some more. Or go touch everyone you see in real life.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 20, 2014, 06:38:16 AM
Narrate animals without looking at cute baby animals. They have this effect of making people act like idiots the closer we are to them.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on May 21, 2014, 10:27:39 AM
Three seconds is probably about the time it takes you to realise that you've got a nice image, think "Oh, that's a nice image", pay too much attention to it and ruin it thus. If you're starting out visualising, or otherwise aren't proficient, you'll notice that it's much harder to get vivid imagery when you're aware of it being vivid. Perhaps you've heard this advice before, perhaps even from me, but you should relax more during a session, focusing less on 'getting' and 'holding' good images, and more on just 'seeing' them more passively. Certainly it will help to space out a little bit and go with the flow, because, as demonstrated, if you become too aware of your visualisations they can be spoiled. Of course when (if) you improve you won't be bounded by that so much.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on May 21, 2014, 11:29:03 AM
At the risk of giving some pretty frustrating advice, "trying to be chill about it" isn't the same as being chill about it. If you're consciously shifting focus away from the vividness of the imagery, especially when you start to get some coming through, you're essentially giving yourself the same problem as before.

My advice is to try to lose your awareness of it entirely. You can try spacing out and just daydreaming at first; it might not be productive like you want it to be but you will hopefully find it easier to hold vivid images, even if you're not aware of it happening.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 23, 2014, 11:18:48 AM
There are no estimates and it's all about you. Could take months. Could take days. Maybe even hours for someone and it would even be legit. Depending how difficult you're going to act about it I'd say.

Even "back then" it could be anything, though a tulpa wasn't considered to be vocal until their voice came out of nowhere and was imposed, which obviously tended to take a while for sane people. Well, if you can ever call tupperforcers sane. Then the new idea of them being able to talk to you without being imposed came (mindvoice) and the vocality times got shorter too. For me personally, I forced one and half hours every day minimum and got actual words out of the tupper around 70 hours. I know because I counted it just so I could answer "when". However, I got non-vocal responses much earlier, starting from strange feelings I mostly ignored because I had no idea what to do with them before I realized head pressure could be used for communication much later and also imaginary body language when I had a form to work with. It made some kind of simple communication possible.

I do believe that if I had completely ignored his attempts at actually talking around that 70 hour mark because they didn't feel "legit" or "alien" enough, getting him vocal would have taken a lot more time. But hey, I gave him a chance to prove himself and I don't regret it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 23, 2014, 12:58:46 PM
Well dunno if you should assume anything. What if you get responses earlier? What if you don't get them when the time is up? What then?

Quote
That's how this whole Tupper thing works, yeah? Sell your soul to some demon?

Yes.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 25, 2014, 06:36:39 PM
Did you force.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 26, 2014, 05:42:14 AM
Forcing means working on the tupper.

Even if you say something "here", you could use the same material and tell the exact same thing to a tupper. Who knows, you might even come up with more stuff as you explain it again. Maybe even something that helps you understand stuff or come to terms with something else.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 27, 2014, 07:14:25 PM
Have you talked about cats yet?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on May 29, 2014, 06:15:48 AM
30 minutes is just fine. Just find the amount of time you feel is the easiest for you, where you can keep talking for that time without running out of stuff to say all the time. And of course, the shorter your forcing sessions are, the easier it is for you to just go do them as they barely take any time, so you might be able to get in more of them in a day. But of course they should be long enough that you feel like you're getting something done.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 05, 2014, 06:20:11 AM
Did you force with the power of a thousand suns?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on June 05, 2014, 04:12:06 PM
Only with the power of 1/1000th of a sun.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 06, 2014, 06:41:40 AM
Remember that sometimes it's just cool to chill out in the sun with a tupper there by your side. You don't have to talk, you don't have to try seeing them, just feel them there with you and chill.

The actual age kittens should be separated from their mothers is 4 months. Not much you can do about it now I guess, unless you're willing to take her back for another two months, if she truly is that young. Not sure if the people who gave her to you would understand if they're crazy enough to give out a kitten that young so who knows what would happen to her. But you know, just sayin' and trying to spread the awareness. Problems tend to arise from early separation, so it would be nice if we worked together to stop those from happening and stuff. People won't know until you tell them.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 06, 2014, 05:34:59 PM
Talk to tulpa about cat. When you live with a cat, you have so much you can tell others about them. Oh man cats are great, I should make a cat thread so we all can post about cats and soon we can call this place catnetwork.

At least you would have some narration material.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 08, 2014, 04:55:10 PM
You obviously haven't cat (it's a verb now) enough if you can't tell tons of stupid stories of your cat. Also better bond well with that cat, I'd say that dogs tend to just love you because you're there but you gotta work for your cat's love and trust. Be around them and give them attention, be someone they want to be around with and they will come to you and be cute.

Thread has been made, cat in peace.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 11, 2014, 06:23:42 AM
Well, making tuppers is a pretty big thing honestly. And you learn so much about yourself in the process. I bet if you manage to do this, you come out as a pretty happy and confident person. But hey, if my shit helps then use it to your advantage, I guess.

As for getting "life" to a tupper's form, I guess that's the part where they should be aware enough to actually move. Unless you would rather puppet them. But I guess you could also mention that the form is the tupper's form and they can use it without your permission and everything, just in case they are unsure. Don't treat their form as an unmoving doll either, as such assumptions seem to sometimes force the body still. In your case your poor visualization skills might even make you miss some of the smaller movements, so this could also be a case of you not noticing something rather than something that doesn't exist in the first place. I guess you could see if you can make the form actually breathe, though. It doesn't really have to do that, but it does make things seem a bit more "real" and "alive", and it's something that should be automatic in that case. So I wouldn't really call it puppeting or anything if you make the form to start breathing and make it automatic.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on June 11, 2014, 08:25:35 AM
Yeah Sands said exactly what I was going to say about feeling alive. Breathing, blinking, moving slightly, that's all a good idea. But I think it's as much a mentality thing as anything else; you're probably long past the point where you're expecting serious responses but it's a good idea to gt back into that habit - at least, treating your tulpa as if they were just 'alive' is a start. And I am certain you know to treat your tulpa as if they were listening but not responding, but having a form to work with that probably helps. You know, something physical to direct these sentiments to, or project them onto.


As for keeping a steady form, reference images have already been brought up in this thread but you know, they help.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: waffles on June 12, 2014, 06:40:49 AM
Your listening but not responding thing doesn't make much sense to me. Yeah, I try and act like she can hear me, but she does already have a form..? So erm.. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. I was just commenting on how that's helpful.


And a big thing about reference images, is I just don't know what to use. If I'm thinking about a pone here, I don't want it to be so much in the show style, or some artist's renditions.. I mean, I have a particular look that I like, and I don't exactly have any images that share the style. Or texture, or any of that stuff. So I don't know what exactly I should be doing there.

Well it might be enough to find something fairly similar and make changes in your imagination. It might help you just remember where everything should be. Perhaps you could also try writing a description and using that as a substitute for a reference image.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 13, 2014, 01:29:50 PM
Remember to go swimming, you get to visualize some Interesting Stuff woah.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on June 13, 2014, 03:19:29 PM
It's also Gr8 Cardio.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on June 14, 2014, 12:56:51 AM
Don't fall back into the maybes probably-s and eventualities.  I did that once and it was awful.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 14, 2014, 06:34:40 AM
Imagination swimming, duh.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 18, 2014, 06:14:58 AM
Obviously you need to have a pillow fight with tupper after hot chocolate with marshmallows. Then you can giggle and talk about boys.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 19, 2014, 06:40:24 AM
Maverick is art.

Well anyways, don't know if it's really faith the rest of us had and more like understanding that a tulpa can take a while to develop and become independent. There's plenty that were vocal but couldn't quite do stuff on their own yet, so they had to work on it. Usually, it's something only time and more experience will bring.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 19, 2014, 09:27:37 AM
Then have more pillow fights.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on June 19, 2014, 01:10:47 PM
Blanked


FUGGIN GOMMIES!
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 19, 2014, 07:35:04 PM
You know, practice usually helps with visualization issues. Instead of just giving up and deciding you can't do it. You must visualize HARDER to become master visualization guru. Also do some tupper massage already. Or go chill outside with her by your side and stare up at the clouds and narrate what you see. You don't actually need to visualize a thing as the clouds would be actual clouds you can see with your actual eyes.

Also, not Russian and well, because anonmgur is down and that's where I had uploaded my signature pictures, I can't be bothered to find them on my computer to see what you're even talking about. Can't remember their names, help. The pictures were made by waffles in any case, if whatever you're talking about was a part of the actual image and you're not talking of something that's on your end.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 20, 2014, 05:49:38 AM
Looks like cyrillic alright. Don't know if it's some non-Russian variant because I'm not very familiar with the scripts. Waffles is a Russian spy.

Have you narrated about what your cat does every day? Cats are cute.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 23, 2014, 06:24:44 AM
Is he playing b-ball?
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 26, 2014, 07:16:16 PM
You better not have failed your sessions, boy.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on June 28, 2014, 06:08:12 AM
Force more.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on June 28, 2014, 04:00:54 PM
Do it soon, busta.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 02, 2014, 06:20:52 AM
Well, I'd say faith isn't the way to go about this seeing how I wrote that entire big thing about the dangers of blind belief and how absence of disbelief is a useful mindset when approaching this... So yeah, your disbelief can cause problems. But the other option isn't to blindly believe when you don't. That would hurt you even more in the end, I'd say.

I guess I shouldn't say my thoughts about starting new tuppers now in case this will actually motivate you and change your mindset into something better. You don't want to start using "starting over" as an excuse every time you feel things aren't going well and then making a new tupper because you got lazy with the last one, though. The last guy who did that never really got anywhere, you know.

You can upload pictures to forums without using the attachments by uploading it first to an image host, such as imgur and whatever. Then you get the direct link to the image, which I believe imgur removed from the side links and that's silly, but you can still get it of course. The image direct links, so you can just right click it and save the address or something. After that you use the img tags with the direct link, though don't post pictures that are too big as they are going to break the board. If your picture is too big then you could just use the direct link with url tags too. I guess there's fancy ways of doing thumbnails and everything too, but eh. Those two are good enough, I'd say.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 02, 2014, 05:20:05 PM
Blanked

Shit happens, and though I'd try to avoid it, if its gotta be that way, it's gotta be that way.
Hopefully, you'll do better with Airy, now that you aren't going into this blind.
Besides, If things go well with Airy you could always revive/bring back/try again with Miriam, if you really wanted to.


Buster.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 04, 2014, 06:14:15 AM
Remember to massage her later.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 04, 2014, 01:06:03 PM
Don't forget.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 08, 2014, 06:33:18 AM
More willpower.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 10, 2014, 07:09:05 AM
Train those willpower muscles harder, son.

When I started to run out of things to say, I would make myself a list of stuff I thought up earlier so I could look back to it during sessions if I felt like I was going nowhere.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 11, 2014, 10:21:14 AM
Blanked

And that's the mindset that makes it happen, huh.

When personality started getting old for me, I stopped doing it. I had planned on doing even more of it back then but when it started feeling like neither of us was exactly enjoying it and found it boring, I just followed my gut and started doing something else. Worked better. You do get to feel what a tupper feels as well, so sometimes very strong feelings could very well be coming from them too. No way to know for sure, but hell, if it feels like "no", then I'm going to just follow it. No harm done. You could always go back if you feel like it and see if it feels better or worse then.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 11, 2014, 01:04:47 PM
Well for some reasons, even I found visualizing tulpa-related stuff more difficult once. Dunno, maybe I expected it to be harder, maybe it truly was harder, who knows. But I know I definitely got better at it as I kept doing it. I would also add more senses in like I've said before, to me being able to touch what I wanted to see helped. Maybe I couldn't see all those wrinkles and pores the skin had, but my fingers sure as hell could feel 'em. And because I knew they were there, I could see them too, eventually.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 14, 2014, 07:18:00 PM
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 15, 2014, 06:49:48 AM
Welp.
Title: Re: This makes a lot of things
Post by: Fede on July 15, 2014, 12:21:34 PM
Seems to me there's this kind of "hidden potential" that some people just have to "unluck" in order to do vivid sensory stuff. Like, they're actually good visualisers, even if they never realised it, and just need to focus on it for a few months and bingo, whereas for other people, there's no "hidden potential" to unluck in the first place, so they desperately try to get somewhere but it's an uphill struggle with seemingly no end, and the more hopeless they become, the less likely they are to succeed in their goal. Enny would probably be one of the latter kind of people.

And yes, Enny, I'm alive, but no one cares. Carry on, please.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 15, 2014, 05:10:58 PM
Unlock fodde. Unlock.
Title: Re: This flakes two
Post by: Fede on July 15, 2014, 10:09:14 PM
Unlock fodde. Unlock.
Tupper locked. How do I unlock.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 16, 2014, 06:47:54 AM
Force more.
Title: Re: This makes three
Post by: Fede on July 16, 2014, 08:54:21 AM
Tried that for a few months. I've resorted to waiting.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 16, 2014, 11:17:19 AM
Try harder u scrub
Title: Re: Tis makes two
Post by: Fede on July 16, 2014, 12:33:03 PM
what did you say to me m8
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 17, 2014, 04:16:36 PM
U.  R.  A.   Scrub.
Title: Re: Tehs maks tiwo
Post by: Fede on July 17, 2014, 06:10:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/9warCBj.gif)
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 17, 2014, 06:41:09 PM
Proof that Enny should come back or his thread will go to shit.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 18, 2014, 05:42:31 AM
Uh you know, usually if they need you to have a car, they wouldn't even hire you if you didn't have one? Either that wasn't the real reason or you guys do this in a really weird way and don't actually know what kind of a guy you're hiring.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 18, 2014, 10:50:27 AM
Tell that bitch to go suck a diiiiiiiiiiiiiick
Title: Re: Piss makes two
Post by: Fede on July 18, 2014, 12:33:27 PM
I'm leaning towards the latter case. Seems weird to hire someone only to immediately fire them again for not having a car. Not the best manager ever. It's a weird thought, but in the long run, maybe it's a good thing you didn't get that particular job.

Also, 600th reply GET.
Title: Re: These make two
Post by: Fede on July 25, 2014, 08:38:21 AM
From the perspective of an outsider, it seems odd to be so neglectful of the tupper concept when you're so cursed by intermittent bouts of depression. Tuppers are the exact thing you should be doing. I feel like telling you to have a second look at my guide (http://tulpanetwork.com/network/guides/fede's-ultimate-superior-tupper-guide/), just for the sake of going by the parroting route rather than the narrative one. Even though parroting in the beginning feels like it's just another personality branched off from yours that has access to the same amount of information as you do, - which it very well does, both in the beginning and the future - then that doesn't stop the potential of making an interesting conversational partner through exploration of character. My guide doesn't delve too deeply into the area of exploring tupper behaviour and opinions, but I've always taken that as being a thing people can handle by themselves over time, with a little helping of common sense and introspection. Perhaps I was wrong in that presumption.

Weird as it sounds, perhaps making yet another tulip wouldn't be such a bad idea - even if I may be calling it a "character" at this stage. Like, you should really sit down and think what someone else would do, what their likes, dislikes, interests, aspirations, quirks, and stuff like that are. A multifaceted personality that allows you to think at great lengths about how the character would react to something, mentally and externally, given factors like their moral values and history. Of course, backstory is not necessary, but is something that can still add depth, since we're shaped by our experiences. Having a character employ a personality just like that without any reason as to why they behave like they do, other than "Well, that's simply how I am and how I've been for... the past two minutes I've existed." can be a bit of a realism killer. Then again, if realism isn't that important, then that makes backstory redundant. Because tuppers are so unrealistic. Might also wanna have a look at this thing (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/DevelopCharacterPersonality), too.

In short: put yourself in someone else's shoes, thinking like them, or maybe describing what they're thinking from a third-person perspective, like "Why are you here? You live with me. It's sunny today. You're currently reading a book. You feel like taking a swim, but it's pretty hot outside. Maybe you'll do it later in the evening, but you're not really sure yet. So you're just kinda doing whatever you fancy for the time being. The book you're reading is about a man exploring the sub-Saharan jungle during the 1880s. The scene descriptions in the book are vivid, which you have a liking for. The protoganist is in his 30s and is hoping to further research in exotic animals. He has apparently had a few quarrels with a local governor, but you're not far enough into the book to know how much that'll influence the story. You like genres that revolve around exploration, and love interests, too. Maybe you'll go to the library one of these days, perhaps down that other aisle you only visit in passing. Oh right, you're reading a story. Here you are, thinking about stuff. If I asked if you wanted to meditate with me, you'd not really feel like it and politely decline, saying 'We can do it later once I'm done with this chapter. I have plans later this evening, anyway.' However, I respect your wants and I feel like just watching you indulge in your interests today, so I won't ask that. It's nice that we know each other so well. You obviously have things you've not openly said as well out of consideration, such as asking me to stop staring at you so much, but you know it's so that I may understand and visualise you in greater detail, which is for the better for both of us."

I dunno, just trying to make some sort of example here. Perhaps you could consider it a combination of narration and parroting, switching between describing the tulip and interacting with them through conversation. Maybe even write the stuff down like I just did; I know that's helped some people. Butt, of course, if you're not feeling up to exploring a character's innermost feelings, thoughts, likes, dislikes, various social masks, and how all this combined influences their decisions, then you can quietly dismiss what I just wrote and carry on being depressed without a conversational partner.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 25, 2014, 12:23:00 PM
Like, you should really sit down and think what someone else would do, what their likes, dislikes, interests, aspirations, quirks, and stuff like that are. A multifaceted personality that allows you to think at great lengths about how the character would react to something, mentally and externally, given factors like their moral values and history.

It worked for me!
Title: Re: This shakes two
Post by: Fede on July 25, 2014, 02:59:40 PM
Do you lack so much empathy that you can't think in an another line of thought than your own? Cause, like, analysing one's thoughts and wondering how other people think like is an ability that forms the foundation of the whole parroting method. And we all know how the classic talk-about-random-shit narration approach has gone for you so far. If you lack the aforementioned, basic ability, then I suppose that yeah, perhaps making a tupper is too ambitious for you, at least my way. No offence or anything; I'm just not a fan of giving people false hope, even if that could potentially placebo them their way to victory, given they're willing enough to change their mindset. But that's just me.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 26, 2014, 06:26:04 AM
Remember when you had fun doing this? Do that. What makes you fail is how you've lost your hope and don't even bother trying anymore.

Alternatively PnP roleplays aren't really something you have to stop doing when you start making tuppers, in my personal experience. It's just yet another thing to talk about with the tupper, really. Hell, if you already said that your roleplaying characters aren't very deep in the first place, learning how to make deep, realistic and fun characters can be a great first step at learning creating tupper personalities.

Of course they can change and all, but for some people, havign a starting point is extremely important.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on July 26, 2014, 07:13:03 AM
Alternatively, you could gather up all those traits you wrote down some weeks ago and make a RP Character out of that.
It mite b helpful.
Title: Re: This makes tables
Post by: Fede on July 26, 2014, 10:09:06 AM
Well, it's nothing new that some people create tuppers with completely blank slates, so that the host and tupper have to build up trust with each other like two strangers that have some things in common and have strong potential for friendship but are nonetheless strangers. Butt, then again, that's what you "kind of" already did, although not my way with the intricate exploration and definition of the tupper's personality and thoughts. Take it or leave it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 26, 2014, 05:36:50 PM
Less real life talk, more tupper talk.
Title: Re: This makes yep
Post by: Fede on July 26, 2014, 06:22:52 PM
Blanked
Oh, the "treating them as a stranger" part was just meant as a side comment, separate from the whole "exploring the thoughts of a tupper you want to think in a certain way and essentially defining a personality from that exploration" thing. Some people treat their newly-created tuppers as strangers. Doesn't mean you have to, or necessarily should. My suggestion was simply imagining a character that you vaguely know the personality of, and trying to put yourself in the shoes of that character and wonder how they think like, how that thinking makes them like certain things and dislike others, how their thinking leads them to prioritise this thing over that, and so on. A sort of introspection, except you're observing a character's thought patterns instead of your own.

And bear in mind I'm still talking about a new entity completely separate from Miriam and that other one. Just to make sure you don't misunderstand.
Title: Re: This drapes two
Post by: Fede on July 27, 2014, 02:52:29 AM
Seems like the negative emotions have become such a standard part of the process now, Miriam or not, and thus making it progressively more miserable to work on tupper stuff because you're reminded of your failures. I hope I'm wrong, but eh...

For once, maybe I can agree with Colonel's advice; the whole "do that fun thing again" tip. I just don't know how much it's going to actually help, and I don't like to give false hope, either. Maybe that's just due to my occasionally pessimistic nature.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 27, 2014, 06:09:25 AM
When your entire mindset is "I can't do it", nothing will obviously get done. Until you can change from "I can't do it" or "nothing will work" to "I will try it and give it my best" and "I will force myself to change into something better for the sake of myself if I have to", then you might get somewhere. Negative Nancies just never get anything proper done when they're too busy wallowing in a pool of self pity and uselessness.

At this point, it's not just a tulpa you should be focusing on if you want one. You should focus on bettering your very being, because that's the real issue.
Title: Re: This wakes two
Post by: Fede on July 27, 2014, 04:16:23 PM
I'd gladly describe to you how I decided to make fun out of my sessions back in June 2012 when I got tired of not being allowed to make responses for the tupplah. Butt, that fun was based on parroting, which in turn was based on going off on the wildest of tangents and making up oftentimes very cheerful responses for her that fit her personality, and I happened to know her personality well.

You? You barely know how you want Miriam, you can't be arsed to deeply explore how she'd think and thereby put yourself in her shoes, you find meditation and anything that involves sitting down and focusing mind-numbingly boring, and your repeated failed attempts at getting anything productive out of the narrative approach (which I tend to not recommend) have led you to form a rather negative mindset about tuppers in general at this point. If I didn't know any better, you want a fresh Tupla that completely acts on its own and didn't require any forethought served on a silver platter. You come off to me as a person that only has little imagination, especially because you can't visualise very well, so a crap tip like "Just, like, relax and let your imagination go and figure out how it wants to make the tupper on its own." is something I wouldn't want to give to you. But I know someone else who probably would under some circumstances. But enough about him.

A combination of a lack of imagination, dedication, focus, empathy, introspection, and all those other goodies is what has brought you to where you currently are. I'm used to blatantly advertising my method as being the easiest to pick up for those that failed with the narrative method, but in your case, even my suggestions probably aren't worth the trouble when you're at the level of not being able to make up a personality and thoughtful responses for it, or use your imagination for something more sophisticated than thinking "I want an imaginary girlfriend that's chill and fun... and... yeah."

Good game, guys. Had a good run. Was fun, y'all.

...

Well, anyway, in case you're still up for it, then you can always go ahead and make one of them extensive character sheets, building up her personality bit-by-bit by picking out a metric shittonne of traits and thereby know a lot more about her. Using those traits, you can then go ahead and use that as fuel for imagining how she would react in certain situations based on her traits, and sort of explore her personality like that, using the method I described in that earlier post; what would she be thinking in the situation, why would she do what she would do? You don't know? Ah, but you have a trait! That should tell you something. Seriously, it's not that hard. It's just like if you're thinking to yourself what you would do in a situation. Except it's not you but someone else, and in a different situation.

Here are some sample personality traits to get you started, shamelessly ripped off from Dane. Optionally, and preferably, you should write some short sentences for as many traits as possible about how the trait in question exactly influences and defines her, and not just "She's chill... yep, that's it."

Energetic, laid back, brave, meek, sarcastic, creative, dull, forgetful, retentive, hardworking, lazy, optimistic, realist, cynical, opportunist, social, introverted, easily amused, often bored, dependable, open minded, sceptical, articulate, simple, strong-willed, confident, friendly, protective, loyal, honest, passionate, resourceful, independent, outgoing, immature, mature, intelligent, comical, logical, consistent, a leader, motivated, not regretful, not gullible, helpful, patient, empathetic, introspective, talkative, thoughtful, mischievous, fierce, hardy, outdoorsy, adaptable, content, reasonable, coordinated, charming, perceptive, observant, trustworthy, quiet, secretive, rebellious, witty, rambunctious, uplifting, faithful, atheist, critical, materialistic, silly, inclusive, agreeable, blunt, sane, accepting, selfless, stoic, meticulous, mean-spirited, snide, handy, motivated.

And if you can't think up situations to imagine her in, just think back on what you've done recently in your life; what would she have done if she were you? Or, perhaps, what would she have done in some of those roleplays? That's at least something if you can't think up anything. There you go. Another tl;dr post.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 27, 2014, 05:44:48 PM
Maybe you want to read through this thread to find the fun parts, if you want to know them. You've listed that shit down here, so why not use it? That's one of the reasons why I suggest people log their progress, so that they can look back.

And I assume your trait thing is for Fede, so I'll let him respond to that as you're waiting for ~~his method~~ and shit here. I'm going to assume that you're already overthinking it and believe that it's harder than it really is, so that you're already putting yourself down and making everything needlessly hard. But what do I know, it's Fede method time.

Quote
So if someone knows how to make this something I'd feel better doing over reading, or sleeping, or vidya games, do tell.

Considering how all of those are you enjoying someone else creating things for you (dreaming rarely is conscious unless you're lucid dreaming, after all) without you having to spend any effort, I guess it might be clear what you enjoy doing and that's not actually doing any work for your entertainment. Creating a tupper is going to have to involve you doing something creative yourself though, sorry.
Title: Re: This steaks two
Post by: Fede on July 28, 2014, 03:02:36 AM
And I assume your trait thing is for Fede, so I'll let him respond to that as you're waiting for ~~his method~~ and shit here. I'm going to assume that you're already overthinking it and believe that it's harder than it really is, so that you're already putting yourself down and making everything needlessly hard. But what do I know, it's Fede method time.

You know it. I'm thinking it's more due to me typing up tl;dr posts to Enny about my method so I'm sure he understands what I mean completely, even though it's kinda failing on that front, partially due to the length of the posts and partially due to Enny himself. But here I am, still trying.

Quote
So if someone knows how to make this something I'd feel better doing over reading, or sleeping, or vidya games, do tell.

Considering how all of those are you enjoying someone else creating things for you (dreaming rarely is conscious unless you're lucid dreaming, after all) without you having to spend any effort, I guess it might be clear what you enjoy doing and that's not actually doing any work for your entertainment. Creating a tupper is going to have to involve you doing something creative yourself though, sorry.

This is very true.

Blanked

How exactly you use the traits is up to yourself, and I was hoping you'd be a little imaginative and experimental in that area. Moreover, you didn't type a single sentence for any of the traits. You just jotted down a bunch of one-word traits, seemingly without any analysis of how they specifically apply to this particular personality. You're not shopping for a tupper. This is not building a computer or pizza online (okay, that was a bad analogy). Although it was optional, I was hoping you'd write at least one sentence. Butt, here goes.

Consider the following: we're different people wherever we go. Sometimes we're only slightly different from what we are in the dark, and sometimes very different from that. It depends on whom we're talking to. Thanks to this, you can go ahead and just choose a group of traits (or even just one trait) and imagine situations where the trait(s) in question would be dominant in the tupper's demeanour. Of course, it's preferable that you keep as many traits as possible in mind, but I know this isn't too easy for you to do, hence why I'm suggesting here that you do them in segments or just one-by-one. Eventually, when you've done this for a while, it becomes easier over time to keep more of them in mind.

Allow me to provide examples. For the laid-back trait, I'd think up some situation where that trait in the tupper would be dominant. I guess one situation where this would be dominant is where the tupper is relaxing with some friends, literally laid-back on some chair, talking casually about some random subject. The subject doesn't have to be anything important. There doesn't even have to be any audio in the scene to begin with. As long as the trait is exhibited and you're taking good note of how the tulip behaves when that trait is dominant, it's fine. No, you're not taking note of some behaviour that happens magically out of thin air without any effort from your side whatsoever. You're taking note of something you're wilfully parroting. Or puppeteering, or whatever.

In another case, perhaps I'd like to combine several traits, as mentioned earlier. I'll just pick humourous and compassionate. So like, I'd just go ahead and imagine the tupper trying to cheer up someone sad with a warmhearted joke. Again, since there doesn't have to be any audio or anything like that involved in the scene, I don't actually have to think up thoughtful lines; I can just focus on the emotion of the combined traits and have it look like the people in the scene are communicating, even though I'd only vaguely know what they'd be talking about. And if emotions are too difficult, then I don't what the fuck to suggest. We're only doing this so we can get to know how the tupper would react and behave in certain situations. Thus, making up thoughtful lines - assuming you'll follow through with Fede's Method� - is something that can wait for later when you're comfortable enough with the personality to make up lines and start parroting for real.

That was just a couple of examples. Surely you have the brains to think up your own instead of always being so "help me guys I can't think of anything at all, my imagination blows, I have no ideas whatsoever, what do I do, please simplify" in your posts.

Also, are you still unable to use Eye-Bo in any way? And did you ever "rediscover" something useful from my guide? Blinking (which the guide mentions) is a fine substitute if you're too embarrassed or something to use Eye-Bo thanks to the frail privacy in your home.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on July 28, 2014, 01:13:59 PM
If you are going this heavy personality route except you're having trouble creating them/characters in the first place, some Google searching for character writing tips/character development/whatever could also help you. There can be some really good tips out there, to help writers. Not exactly tupper stuff, but it could help you as it's rather similar.

There's also these 100 questions (http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/100ThingsAboutUrPCBackGround.html) a fully developed character should easily answer to (if appliable), though a tulpa that is still in the creation phase couldn't really answer to all of them because of lack of experience. And I don't approve of trying to create false backgrounds for tuppers. At least parts 1 to 3 and part 7 are all more or less skippable. There's a few you might be able to answer yourself, but not all. Even the other ones can be a bit tricky, but some of those questions can make you think what kind of a personality someone would have. But this list can be very useful when creating roleplaying characters as they are something that should have a created background and stuff. So hey, taking a look could potentially help you with creating tupper personalities, but it would definitely help you with creating better roleplaying characters.

And seriously, if you start being all "but that's too many questions/too much reading/too haaaaaaard" then come on. Push yourself a little, you'll never develop any skills if you never push yourself out of your comfort zones. You don't have to use it at all, but don't let "too haaaaard" be the reason.
Title: Re: This makes thirteen billion
Post by: Fede on July 28, 2014, 05:16:02 PM
And seriously, if you start being all "but that's too many questions/too much reading/too haaaaaaard" then come on. Push yourself a little, you'll never develop any skills if you never push yourself out of your comfort zones. You don't have to use it at all, but don't let "too haaaaard" be the reason.

This.

And as an afterthought, would it be better to speak to parroted Tupper even before I fully understand the traits? In between sessions and all that, or would I probably wanna have a better grasp on how she would act..?

I'd rather you get to know the personality first. But most of all, if you're going to follow through with my method, you need to break away from that "Hey, I'm gonna say something to you, I hope you can hear me, bla bla bla..." stuff. Not that I think that's what you're really saying and it's probably very different from the typical narration you've always done. Either way, do not talk to the tupper as if they can't hear you or is some "mysterious entity" far away off in mindland. Get rid of the narration mindset you've had with you for the past I don't know how many months. With my method that I've extensively described in those earlier posts, you're doing either of the following:
  • Imagining the tupper in some situation with a specific emotion being dominant, optionally while narrating about what the tupper is doing, why they're doing it, and so on. You're not narrating about yourself like you've always done. That is not what this is.
  • Directly interacting with the tupper through conversation, in which case you'd make up lines for them and have them actually think about stuff instead of just creating immediate, generic yes/no/I guess/maybe responses.
If you're going to "talk to her between sessions", it should be actual conversation between the two of you. But, since you're at a way too early point to have an effective grasp of her personality to be able to say "Man, she would so do that." or "That's so her." (I'm assuming it's a female), then stick to the trait emotion scene imagining exercise for now, since you apparently need very specific instructions and don't seem to experiment very much or find out stuff yourself by trying many new things. Experimentation is one of the most important things in the tupper business, you know, but I guess a thousand posts later from Colonel and me aren't enough to make you understand that.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on July 31, 2014, 03:37:46 PM
Alright, I've read through this thread a couple times- not to the letter, but roughly- and I'd like to toss my two cents in, if Enny will hear it. I've got a hell of a lot less experience than Sands or Fede, but I might be able to relate to your problems a bit more in that I've only recently overcome them (god forbid I don't acknowledge the effort of these two to help you). All of you, please forgive me if what I say has been said again and again before in the thread already.


While I support the idea that you should "start over" with your tulpa, as previously mentioned, I understand that starting over from scratch would feel like a waste of time and energy (and it does take significant amounts of energy at first). I'll offer an alternate proposal: sit down with your tulpa and have a heart-to-heart. Let them know that you want to set down a foundation for your relationship. Whether you think they can hear you or not, I suggest coming to this meeting of minds with two goals: giving them a sense independence, and not preparing their future for them.

Let me clarify that I mean "not preparing" as not trying to create every single facet of a tulpa from the get-go. When I started out and read up on people starting to create their own tulpa, I saw post after post after post asking "what do I do for this" or "what should they be like in this particular aspect," with little to no progress being made. I found it easier to use somewhat general descriptions for what my tulpa would be like, and let it decide from then on how it would develop. My first narration session was a down-to-earth confession, basically. I told my tulpa why I created it, how I wanted it to affect me, and what I expected from it in the future. Likewise, I told it what I would do for it in return, and what I wanted for its future. Luna was made with the intent of being considerate, compassionate, independent, and understanding- I had no perspective of a name, gender, voice, or anything like that at the time of her creation (or Haya's, for that matter), only the hope that she would grow from a basic set of traits.

I understand that you don't want to just ditch your tulpa's current personality in favor of starting over. Instead, I recommend addressing your tulpa as it is, and talk to her (I'm assuming from here on out Miriam is female) about what it means for you to have a tulpa. Let her know why you made her, what she means to you, etc., until you feel confident that it has at least a basic understanding of how you feel. You should also, at the very least, give her some acknowledgement that you have some respect for her opinion-to-be, and that while neither of you have a solid definition of who she is as a tulpa, that she has some decision in the matter. You're more than welcome to establish a form, voice, and the specifics of her personality from the start- and I don't think she'll fault you for having done so already- but I believe that it's important to set a connection that your tulpa can work from on their own without your focus.

One thing to keep in mind with this mindset of giving your tulpa a little independence early on is that you might have to put more effort into your regular sessions than you would with a "pre-made" tulpa. My solution to narrating was thinking to my tulpa (I didn't feel comfortable talking out loud) about everyday things; my walk to classes each day, enjoying nature, my family and past, my feelings, and my hobbies were great subjects to narrate to her about. The whole time, I had the ideas about vocality and other tulp-ish abilities in my head, but I pushed them away to try and lead into her abilities, rather than make things happen - no offense to Fede and his parroting method, I'm only speaking in terms of what worked for me. I reminded myself whenever I felt depressed or doubtful that my tulpa was made to be understanding, and that it would take matters into its own hands/hooves/etc. when it was ready, outside of my influence. I only had to trust them and support them by being patient.

Speaking of patience, one of the biggest suggestions I can make is that she needs time to grow. The advice I've seen given to you can help, but you should work through each part smoothly and consistently. Start at step one, work through it until you feel mildly proficient, and then move on, making sure to touch up on the basics now and again. I've observed from your feedback from reading and attempting these pieces of advice that patience (or lack thereof) makes a large contribution to your progress. I went through a long period of forcing at random times during the week, for up to two hours at a time, and others do just twenty to thirty minutes at a time, multiple times a day/week. I suggest not measuring your growth by time, but by what you feel you've done. You don't have to be able to "know" what you've done, just know that you've spent a little more time with your tulpa than you did before you started.

A huge milestone for anyone with a tulpa is communication. While I don't know an exact method of transferring a tulpa from silence to vocality, both of mine found a way of making themselves known through "head pressures," making my ears ring whenever I was narrating or in response to it. This is by no means a goal you should set your tulpa to, but I've learned that they can be rather creative (if not spontaneous) in their means of communication. When you narrate to her, just keep in mind that she might be actively listening, not paying attention, or even trying to get your attention without you realizing it. Part of the mentality is not consciously trying to hear or feel your tulpa, just letting it do its own thing. My tulpas went from silence to pressures to vocality in weeks, but your tulpa is not one of my tulpas; yours may already be ready to communicate for herself and she might be waiting patiently for you to allow her to speak without you putting the words in her mouth, or she might just be a little shy and doesn't know how you want her to sound/act. It's pretty hard to tell from this stage, but I find it helpful to keep a level head and remind your tulpa that you want to hear or feel her- whether you actually can or not- in the hope that she will be more confident in her attempts to acknowledge you in a way you can understand. Thinking of it reminds me of the transition between riding a bike with training wheels and without; a median between encouraging her and helping her along is needed to progress.

I'd like to give you advice on tulpa forms and visualization as well, but that's one of my weakest facets of forcing. What I can tell you is that a tulpa's form is just that- its form. I've learned that it can grow and change like your tulpa does, and is as permanent as the two of you decide it should be. Visualization is a difficult task to handle, but my suggestion is researching paracosms, a.k.a Wonderlands. Over time, I've found that having a simple, easy-to-remember place where you can relax and not worry about the outside world makes problems with forcing much easier to go through. While I haven't gotten so far as to actually see any of the Wonderlands I've made, the sense that I'm there is relaxing in and of itself.

If there's anything that I can hope you will take from this wall of text, it's that, while subconscious thinking is at the very heart of tulpas and forcing, conscious thinking has just as much of an effect on your progress. If you truly believe that you don't know that your tulpa is there and/or can even hear you, then chances are that you won't get much farther than you have up until this point. If you're willing to question your first instinct and try to let your just tulpa be while you try to connect with her (even though you can't sense her at all, with or without focus), your brain will likely try to fill in the gaps you aren't able to yourself. It's not a matter of blindly believing, but being willing to accept that there are steps in the process you cannot fully control yet.

I feel, at this point, I've beaten you with my "just slow your roll, let your tupper do tupper things, and let your brain do the rest" just enough to get you thinking, maybe. It's hard to wrap one's mind around "Act without acting, think without thinking," but remember that it will all be worth it in the end. Remind your tulpa of this, and remind yourself. There will come a time where you might not be able to remind yourself, but your tulpa will eventually be able to do it for you, if you let them.


TLDR; "Fuck the two cents part, this is a wall of text." Go back the fuck up and read, I put some effort into this post to try and give you another perspective.

Feel free to tear my shit up or tell me I'm your personal god, whatever works for you.
Title: Re: This penises two
Post by: Fede on August 05, 2014, 01:15:59 PM
Way to go, Daker. You scared him off.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on August 05, 2014, 02:47:44 PM
What a shame.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on August 06, 2014, 01:41:54 PM
Way to go, Daker. You scared him off.

Damn. I thought I'd at least get a "you dun know wot ur talkin bout m8."
Title: Re: This penis two
Post by: Fede on August 06, 2014, 04:07:55 PM
None of us know what we're talking about. The existence of tuppers is open to interpretation.
Title: Re: This makes penis
Post by: Fede on August 10, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
Farewell, and do get better.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on August 11, 2014, 05:41:08 AM
Well, I do say that you should be doing tuppering when you're mentally well and all, because then you're best prepared for everything. So if you ever want tuppers (or even if you don't want to), getting your life back on tracks is a good first step. Of course a tupper could help with the process potentially, but if you don't think you can do it, don't do it like that, then. Do what you think works for you better. Understanding yourself better is only going to help you in the future, no matter what. As does knowing what you want out of life.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on September 15, 2014, 01:22:28 AM
Blanked

When, where, and whats my payment?
Title: Re: yep
Post by: Fede on September 15, 2014, 01:51:50 AM
Well, since it can be used with pretty much any tupper creation method, you could try the belief implanting technique... but that would probably require too much effort.

Actually, forget I said anything.

Whatever.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 19, 2014, 08:16:48 AM
Sometimes the only reason is that you are just so used to everything else being bad so it will be bad. Nocebo is also a real thing.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on November 30, 2014, 04:32:16 PM
Sounds like a good way to tackle it. Don't worry about it, just do shit and see where it goes. Once you actually have more experience about what works for you the best, you'll be able to put more effort into those and stop doing stuff that doesn't work.

You just gotta Try Shit. (and Just Do It)
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on November 30, 2014, 06:37:36 PM
Keep trying things, something will work eventually if you stick enough shit on the wall.

Also:  Enny is your avatar a bell pepper?  Flings likes it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sparks on December 02, 2014, 08:54:12 AM
Obligatory:

(http://dab1nmslvvntp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/nike-logo.jpg)
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 02, 2015, 07:27:59 AM
How to tupper: stop being depressed, apparently.
Title: Re: This makes twins
Post by: Fede on February 02, 2015, 08:52:03 AM
wow
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 02, 2015, 12:20:43 PM
Weird sleeping things isn't unheard of according to some of the surveys that were made back in the day, at least. What I remember is that I kind of stopped remembering my dreams for a while, even though I usually was able to remember something. Coincidence? Who knows.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on February 02, 2015, 02:12:09 PM
I've noticed that after I had those dreams that I'm more "aware" that I was dreaming.  Not lucid, but like genera-awareness kinda aware.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 04, 2015, 08:55:25 AM
Tuppering is weird, mate.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 05, 2015, 08:59:43 AM
Well, I have never meditated. Maybe someone would call the stuff I did/do meditation, but I dunno, never has been intended as such and I don't really know what people classify as meditation or as a meditative state anyways. I just chill and do stuff.

I can kinda see where your friend's coming with you having to clear your mind before you can hear a tupper. At least in my case, I'm usually always having a monologue about something in my head, pretty loudly too. And I tend to keep my thoughts well under control, so it's an environment where a tupper can easily get lost or even be forced to stay quiet. There were some guides that talked about clearing your mind and stuff to be able to hear the tupper, but unfortunately those never made much sense to me until I actually knew what they were talking about. It's like, you need to let go of controlling your thoughts, which also means you don't want to force everything quiet. You'd want to let things just come and go, that's one of those better things to do to hear a developing tupper, in my eyes. Necessary? Who knows. Some tuppers have seemingly made their way through even the most stubborn host.

You could still do stuff with the tupper and ask them to do things, see if stuff really does end up happening. And if you just want to practice seeing stuff, you could even visualize non-tupper things or use pretty much any other visualization focus shit before you introduce a tupper to it.

PS. normal people don't have fetishes, you sicko...
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on February 05, 2015, 08:09:36 PM
Most normal people don't have tuppers though.
Title: Re: This makes two...
Post by: Fede on February 06, 2015, 02:08:57 AM
When you get vague enough with the definition, most people do.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 06, 2015, 06:29:38 AM
Maybe we all are tuppers...

ps our defined term here isn't that vague, fodde.
Title: Re: Thesis makes two
Post by: Fede on February 06, 2015, 07:47:53 AM
Even with a definition of a subjective experience in place, it still heavily depends on who you ask.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 15, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
Well I know my visuals got better as I kept doing it, so uh, might happen to you too.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 16, 2015, 07:47:27 PM
First you stop being a control freak and understand that shit could change. You'd want the tupper to know that they can change shit too, because if you've said that they can't to yourself all the time, where do you think they will get the idea that they maybe can? Not every tupper comes up with stuff on their own if they have lived their lives thinking they can't do that shit and it's up to you to tell them what's fine for them to do.

As for actually training yourself to see imaginary stuff you didn't come up with, as a person with bad mental sight you might want to try to feel the changes. Any little feelings in your gut that something might be different? Explore it, what can you see? Instead of just materializing a tupper from thin air, let them roam the wonderland but ask them to come close when you get in too and then see if you can feel where they are and what they are doing before you see it. When you have a place to look at and an idea of what is happening, you might be able to see it.

When you're a control freak, a big step in visualizing is to learn to let go and let your mind create stuff without your output. If you imagine a forest, I sure as hell hope you don't imagine every single tree on its own as you put them down. It's like that.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Roswell on February 17, 2015, 03:04:40 PM
You need to train yourself instead of just saying you can't do it. If you start out with barely any ability, even a little bit of a push is better than nothing, yes? Teach yourself to do things differently by actually trying to do them differently.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 18, 2015, 08:19:36 AM
Look man, it's your mind. It's all in your mind. There's no magical button to press that makes shit happen for everyone. The only thing you really can have is the intent to do things differently and then do it differently, because this is what controls shit happening inside your head. Yourself. Shut your mental eyes, don't see but feel. Stumble in the darkness for hours if you want. The point is that you want to try to do things differently for the sake of doing things differently. If you never try, you will never find new ways.

Or you can go waaaaaaaaaaaaah I caaaaaaaaan't and not even try. Even the biggest idiots can get somewhere, but then your whining won't really help us help you. Then you just have to do everything Your Way, just like you wanted.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 18, 2015, 12:14:24 PM
It's not "the hard way"; it's a way, but it doesn't serve your purpose in the way you want. You don't just pick one way and go with it. You usually tend to develop many ways for different things which you eventually add together (at least the things that worked for you) to create the best way of visualizing, completely customized to yourself. Never get stuck in a routine or one way, some people get so stuck in their ways that they have an extremely hard time getting out of there.

Feels are completely subjective. What I describe might be something you will never feel, but it doesn't mean you are missing something. We're just different like that. But I don't think we're "special" in the way that one person would be completely unable to do the basic things the rest of us can do unless mental of physical disabilities are present. So I 100% believe that you have all you need for that perfect visualization you want.

How you do it? Yeah you definitely could just say "I am now going to see different shit" and it works, minds are weird like that and it's a completely valid way of doing things. It's all about your mindset, you could create symbolism and literally flick a switch in your head to see things how you want to see them. But usually we are a bit more critical than that, so we often scoff and go "pssh, that would never happen", so it doesn't. At least until we somehow stumble on the correct answer and then realize how stupid we have been because it seriously is just that easy. Remember, every single guide and tip you see in these communities was created because a person did something new in a different way, not because someone told them but because they wanted to try something new and did. You could create a list of things you think might help you and then try them out. The best ideas that work for you personally tend to come from your own head.

Now enough of that and some maybe answers. A "feel" could literally be anything. It's that moment when you know that something is happening or something is there without seeing it. You don't need to see a person to know that someone is staring at you. You don't need to see someone do a bad thing to maybe suddenly feel that something about this other person is off and you really need to get out of there asap. And right now we're talking about your mind, a thing you are literally connected to. Because it is a part of you, you have the ability to know when a mental landscape has changed, you can just feel it. Know it. Because you are connected to it and a tupper is connected to you and you're connected to the tupper. We can hear their thoughts, they can hear our thoughts and even a young tupper can be sending you messages that you can pick up if you're observant enough. Use all of these together to know what your tupper is doing before you even see them and use the information to see them in the correct way. When it feels right, it's right. Trust yourself there, many bad things could be avoided if people let those little signs push them in the right direction.

I'd suggest you blindfold yourself for a day. You probably can't do a whole day because you know, going to the bathroom and eating would be very difficult without help and you probably wouldn't want to ask for help in those things, but it would help you see the world differently. At that point, all you have is your mental image of the world - and if you try to trust what you think is there without feeling it, you'll walk into a wall.
Title: Re: This scrapes two
Post by: Fede on February 18, 2015, 06:23:48 PM
To chip in on that last part about the blindfolding, I can say from experience that working on hallucinations for short, very intense periods tends to be much stronger and more effective than working on hallucinations for long, relaxed periods. As in, spending a weekend doing a shit tonne of combined hours' worth of visualisation will do you more good than visualising for, say, a half or whole hour every day for a few weeks.

At least, so it has occurred to me all the times I've gone on "meditation fasts". There was a couple of weekends where I did it in late 2012. During what I think was the latter weekend, I managed to open-eyed hallucinate a tulip I had around at that point for several seconds, and all I did was pace around endlessly, use the various techniques described in my guide (such as blinking and using one's hands as a means of keeping proportions in check), and listen to a primarily theta-dominant isochronic tone on repeat. It was mindnumbingly boring whenever I'd run out of things to talk about with the Tuplas, but it was overall a very new experience to me at the time. Considering that my visualisation skills prior to that attempt were by and large locked to my mind's eye only, I'd say that was pretty well done.

I went on some more meditation fasts in the middle of 2013 and the first half of 2014, both fasts lasting several months, and as recently as December last year, I spent all month and a little bit of January this year belief implanting all day. Incidentally, I'm considering going on another meditation fast soon. Anyway, point is, if you want to make substantial progress quickly, you should do it as intensively and continuously as you can. If you want to make progress slowly, then by all means, take it slow.

Also, start doing belief implanting and, gasp, read over the stuff in my guide, instead of whining about not knowing what to do.
Title: Re: This makes... nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Post by: Fede on February 19, 2015, 08:25:15 AM
Fede: I've already forgotten half of what you wrote, but agree on-topic of intensive and drawn-out work. As it is, I don't have shit to do for more than twenty minutes at a time except visualize, so in those few days I mentioned up there, I'll see if I can mess up my sleep enough that I'm awake at night or something, and able to binge (And hopefully see stuff, while I'm at it) without getting any important calls, or knocks on the door.

I certainly hope you don't screw up your sleep schedule for the sake of pulling off an "intense visualisation regimen". At least, that's not what I intended to suggest. Rather, what I think you should do is take some period of several days, weeks, or months to focus as much of your free time as possible on non-stop visualisation, even if it's going to be 99% boring. No pain, no gain. Well, no boredom, no gain.

Basically, what it means is that you put aside trivial stuff you'd usually do in your free time – whatever that stuff is – and instead prioritise visualisation and experimenting with different techniques, even when you'd eventually go "Nope, this isn't helping. No method seems to work. Can't see anything." Don't stop there; keep boring your arse off with visualisation and keep trying to become immersed in the daydream state.

Or don't, and keep doing the same thing you're doing.

Belief implanting is the thing with the moaning and rocking, yeah? Aside from Vice's comment on that, which pretty well summed it up, not something I could really do in this house. There's those few days, yeah, but I've already made up my mind to try and devote that to visuals. And the piano, probably. But yeah, my sister can hear me mumbling to myself as it is, my bed creaks like fuck, and I have like, two square-feet of space on the ground. If somebody walked in on me doing that, I'd be fucked, father would probably think it was demonic, or something. Not the first kid he'd have accused of having demons in him, or anything.

I think you're misunderstanding belief implanting. Have you read the chapter about it in my guide? Because in it, it's stated that you should only be doing as many of the activities listed as possible. If it's not possible under your circumstances to moan or rock back and forth, the two shining examples you decide to highlight, then that's fine. Don't do that, then. There are lots of other things you could be doing, like simply smiling and breathing deeply, giggling quietly perhaps without involving your voice. The technique is very versatile, as it can be done in a gajillion different ways and can be used for any purpose. This means you can use it to improve your visuals, in case I actually need to repeat that fact – probably way more effectively than the way you're currently doing it. Yet, you quickly dismiss the entire thing and remain ignorant.

And your guide, eh, I've considered what's in it a few times, but I'll probably never read that thing and not think to myself "Nah, nothing here I give a shit about."

It's unfortunate you keep having this sort of permanent prejudice against my guide, such that whenever I try to refer you to it, you likely don't bother to reread the details and instead just skim over the entire thing, or maybe not even that. There's a lot in there that I'm very certain could truly help you if you actually took it seriously, but it seems you don't.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 19, 2015, 09:30:03 AM
You don't really need to buy a blindfold, I don't think you can live in modern society without having some kind of piece of cloth lying around, right? Anything really works as long as you layer it enough so no light gets through.

You could tell other people that it's a SCIENCE project too. I think many people excuse your weird behavior if you give them a reason. Tupper paints with left hand in the presence of other people when everyone knows I'm right-handed? "It's an artistic project to see what my left hand would paint, duh". Works real well because the left hand is supposed to be the ARTISTIC HAND anyways.

I guess your fusebox symbolism with the smoke is interesting. Like you didn't make that smoke happen, right? And you still saw it?
Title: Re: This makes eight
Post by: Fede on February 19, 2015, 02:08:16 PM
I will, though, go through Belief implanting again, and see how much I'd be able to viably do. I figured if I couldn't do most of the stuff, I might just skip, but if you insist it can be useful with less of the actions being performed, I'll look into it.

Indeed. Even if it'd be so stripped of the activities that you'd basically just be lying there with a smile on your head and whispering absolutely nothing at all, instead relying on your mind voice, then that would still be good enough. Simply, the more you immerse yourself into the whole thing, the stronger the effect of implanting the desired belief.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on February 19, 2015, 02:49:46 PM
See, you ARE able to have sudden stuff just happen in your mind without you meaning to do it or visualizing it super hard from every angle or something. It's there and this is proof that you're capable.

You don't need journals for SCIENCE, you could just say you heard cool stuff on the internet and decided to see how it really feels to be blind for a day or something. Bluff skills yo.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on March 12, 2015, 03:53:57 AM
Come on mane
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 12, 2015, 08:21:28 AM
Tuppering is all about feeling homosexual.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 14, 2015, 08:52:51 AM
I've noticed that two answers at the same time can come from them not having decided or being unsure about something, so there's that. Or you're just getting confused because mind stuff is weird yo.
Title: Re: This yeps two
Post by: Fede on March 14, 2015, 04:57:39 PM
Uncertain imagination leads to uncertain characters.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 15, 2015, 09:06:15 AM
Well you could also ask her what's wrong and see if you can guess it, if you don't get a verbal response.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on March 15, 2015, 06:41:10 PM
No such thing as too much forcing, so go for it.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 17, 2015, 08:48:34 AM
Will you hold hands?
Title: Re: This.
Post by: Fede on March 19, 2015, 06:09:43 AM
Blanked

Do more belief implanting.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 19, 2015, 08:45:06 AM
Making tuppers will make you feel like you're insane, but such is life.
Title: Re: This makes Tuesday
Post by: Fede on March 20, 2015, 12:51:19 AM
Have it your way.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 22, 2015, 08:15:02 AM
Try to introduce other forms of responses too! Use the hands, maybe form pictures or things with your imagination.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 23, 2015, 08:04:35 AM
Well, I know that my tupper sleeps too. Dunno why, but I guess some like it/find it a good way to pass time when hosts are sleeping.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 28, 2015, 09:23:57 PM
Well I dunno, if you try to hear words then telling them to not speak kind of goes against the idea...

Go look at some clouds faggot. Describe clouds. Exciting.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on March 29, 2015, 12:29:06 AM
Looks like progress is being made. Looks good.

As far as words go, you could just sit by yourself and think to her "ping" and ask her to respond with "pong." If you think you made up a "pong" yourself, switch roles- you wait to respond until she pings you, giving her control and helping you improve your attention for her responses. If you think you made up another one, switch again. Repeat until you've consumed a significant portion of your day.

Best case scenario, you start to hear her voice better and then she gets to yell at you for not giving her enough tupper sex. Tuppers seem to like yelling occasionally.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 29, 2015, 08:17:03 AM
Imaginary clouds man. Imaginary clouds could also be created by the tupper so it could be a way for her to direct the conversation in the direction she wants.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on March 29, 2015, 09:54:07 AM
I believe the term is faggotry, and you'll come to get over it, don't worry. The yell-apologize-make up method is how I got over doubts a lot early on. I'd feel doubtful about one of them, they'd chew me out, and then we'd move on. Hell, I still do it today.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on March 29, 2015, 07:10:51 PM
Ask tupper to yell at you whenever they feel like it. Then they'll yell at you when you least expect/want it to happen and they'll make you cry. At that point you'll know they're real and that you aren't really crazy.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 30, 2015, 07:59:01 AM
Well I suggest you have a talk about it. Super emotional homo talk. Seeing how us non-tuppers already can doubt our own existence...
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on March 30, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
Super-duper emotional talk, even if it's just you doing the talking. Be honest.
Title: Re: This cakes two. Get it? Cake? Yum.
Post by: Fede on March 30, 2015, 04:23:03 PM
Solution: avoid settling for the meagre existence that is two personalities in one head, restricted to this world alone. Instead, travel to other worlds and live a multifaceted existence. Interact with other beings that are as physical as you, just like here, without all the repercussions of insisting on living up to the idea of two people in one head. It's impractical and limited. Who's to say those beings in those other worlds are any less "real" than the "separate personality" you're struggling to create? There's so much more potential imagination can unleash. Why deliberately settle for such a small thing, knowing this?
Title: Re: This shakes two penises lightly
Post by: Fede on March 31, 2015, 05:25:11 AM
What I'm trying to tell you is that your brain's a powerhouse, yet the massive potential that can come from it is squandered in favour of a very modest and narrow pursuit.

Pardon my ambitionist mindset; Benny and the yogi are already quite used to it. Or, at least, I think they are.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on March 31, 2015, 07:53:52 AM
Can't say I've ever experienced spinning or something uncontrolled like that in a dream, they try to be "realistic" when it comes to that dream's universe. Of course dream logic is still present and all which makes for weird things.

Anyways, you could always be having some intrusive thoughts and shit. It happens. When you're confused about something, you can just say you're not really sure what was being said and don't think too much about it until you learn to filter out that kind of thoughts.
Title: Re: This makes about fourteen ninety-nine
Post by: Fede on March 31, 2015, 09:12:16 AM
Blanked

Reflect upon what you could potentially do. That's all I ask, because I know I can't ask for much else. We can do a lot of sophisticated things with our minds when we're able to fully control our senses. But here we are making Goddamned imaginary friends. Well, most of us, anyway.

Blanked

Who said anything about belief implanting or Eye-Bo?
Title: Re: This fucks two
Post by: Fede on March 31, 2015, 04:25:25 PM
Blanked

FUCK YOU!
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: MegaBusta on March 31, 2015, 05:01:33 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/1Q4dcch.gif)

SURE IS A WHOLE LOT OF FUCKING GOING ON AROUND HERE.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Daecher on March 31, 2015, 06:14:47 PM
Seems so.
Title: Re: This makes two
Post by: Sands on April 01, 2015, 05:19:52 PM
But this thread exists for you to read it again and again...
Title: Re: This twos make
Post by: Fede on April 06, 2015, 01:40:21 AM
Just make a new tupper again so you can get that good, old feeling of starting something new back. It seems to be the only thing that's consistently worked for you.