Author Topic: Half-formed tulpa from the start  (Read 5265 times)

Half-formed tulpa from the start
« on: September 30, 2014, 03:05:46 PM »
So I've decided to make a tulpa, why else would I be here?

Anyway, I already have a feel for her standing behind me, I feel her "essence" (for lack of a better word) there. I already have a good idea of her personality and form (a little like Merida from Brave), just not very fleshed out. I use her as my "muse" for video game and tabletop characters, who all tend to be very close to her. I can see her briefly when I do the turn around quickly trick from Fede's guide. I think she's been with me for awhile now, just more of a shadow. I want to make her more real.

A few questions I had now that you know the basics..

  • Do I need to parrot? I get a bad feeling about doing it, which I interpret to be from her.
  • Would physical real gestures, like holding a door briefly for her, be considered forcing?
  • I feel as though she is already making decisions about herself. What kind of exercises would I need to do to allow her to do that, imposing as little of my wants as possible?

Thanks ahead of time, I'll probably have other questions later.
Black then white are all I see in my infancy. red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me. lets me see.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine. Drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 04:00:25 PM »
1. No, that is up to you - and in this case, most likely up to her as well if you feel like she might already be capable of making these decisions. If it feels bad then it's usually better to not do it.

2. Well, in a way you could say it's sort of passive forcing as you would probably be passively imposing or visualizing at that point if you're just doing it to be polite rather than trying your hardest to see them. Listing it as forcing or a forcing activity would sound a bit silly due to how small of a gesture it is, though it most likely is a part of your overall passive or active imposition. It's not a bad thing to do when no one is watching though, as it is you treating them as a real person which tends to lead to good results.

3. Just do whatever you have done this far, though if you're doing some kind of personality forcing then at this point you might as well stop doing that. Tell her that you are only giving her suggestions if you change something and that she can change them herself if she wants to, you're not trying to force her into anything. Keep narrating and see if you get some responses. Also keep an open mind and remember that if something suddenly changes, it's possible that it was her.

Bonus answer:
Quote
I use her as my "muse" for video game and tabletop characters, who all tend to be very close to her.

Start being a bit more creative instead of being a one trick pony with copies. You sound like someone who is a bore to roleplay with if all your characters end up being more or less the same, come on! Mix it up a little already, try something you would have never done before and see how much fun you can have by doing something new. I'd be pretty freaked out if someone kept making copies of me to play pretend with, too.

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 04:09:57 PM »
Quote
Start being a bit more creative instead of being a one trick pony with copies. You sound like someone who is a bore to roleplay with if all your characters end up being more or less the same, come on! Mix it up a little already, try something you would have never done before and see how much fun you can have by doing something new. I'd be pretty freaked out if someone kept making copies of me to play pretend with, too.

Well, when I can play, I'm mostly the storyteller (oWoD) so my characters have to be varied. It's rare that I'll just be a player. Almost all my Skyrim characters are curly redheads with freckles though, just as an example.
Black then white are all I see in my infancy. red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me. lets me see.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine. Drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 04:46:30 PM »
Curse of the GM.

Play as an orc next time and name him after me.

Argentum

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Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 07:19:22 PM »
Start being a bit more creative instead of being a one trick pony with copies. You sound like someone who is a bore to roleplay with if all your characters end up being more or less the same, come on! Mix it up a little already, try something you would have never done before and see how much fun you can have by doing something new. I'd be pretty freaked out if someone kept making copies of me to play pretend with, too.

A lot of people in the community could benefit from that solid tulpa advice, Sands.

I think I disagree with Sands a little though.  I think that as long as you're thinking about the tulpa, and as long as you are connecting these different characters as the same person, its all cool.  Its just a different method of forcing.  But don't forget to consider the opinions of your tulpa, and don't forget that your tulpa isn't just a character.  Well she is, but you know what I mean.

Take what you wanted and GOOO!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:37:50 PM by Argentum »

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the penis
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 04:00:43 AM »
Do I need to parrot? I get a bad feeling about doing it, which I interpret to be from her.

Not even gonna suggest parroting at this point, then. You've become a narrator. Why does everyone get this bullshit "bad feeling" about parroting, Jesus Christ. Fucking frontloading and inevitable stigma.

Right, anyway, I'm still gonna suggest you give my guide a re-read and take what you can from it, even despite that it revolves around parroting and approaches tuppers more from a sort of "advanced, realistic character" perspective rather than a "TOTALLY SEPARATE CONSCIOUSNESS/REAL ACTUAL PERSON" perspective. Namely, stuff like Eye-Bo, belief implanting, and the techniques for hallucinating described in the various chapters could probably be of use to you.

+5 points for tupper being a freckly redhead and a muse to you.

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 06:26:14 AM »
I think I disagree with Sands a little though.  I think that as long as you're thinking about the tulpa, and as long as you are connecting these different characters as the same person, its all cool.  Its just a different method of forcing.

I don't see where I implied differently and it's not like every single thing you do with a tulpa ever = forcing, either. These days, I wouldn't say normal talking is forcing even though it basically is narration nor would I say that normally spending time with him is forcing or something. I guess whatever you do that is forming the tulpa is forcing but once your tulpa basically is well developed enough, I wouldn't call the time you spend with them after that forcing. But just because something isn't "forcing" doesn't mean it isn't a good thing to do or wouldn't have you forming a tulpa, as I guess you often do have to treat the tupper as a real person to get the most out of this whole thing. Holding doors open or making sure they have actual physical space to sit in would be pretty good for imposition, as it's all about fooling yourself to see what isn't there and such gestures would only make the illusion stronger. But one small gesture is hardly "forcing" on its own in my eyes, but it would be a part of imposition you're doing at the moment, passive or active - and whether or not you would call that forcing is up to you, I guess.

Some things are pretty easily identified as forcing. I guess others are a bit more hazy, but the time you spend with a tulpa is never exactly wasted.

Argentum

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Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2014, 04:39:20 PM »
I don't see where I implied differently and it's not like every single thing you do with a tulpa ever = forcing, either.

I thought that was what forcing is; interaction with a tulpa. 

I don't think you implied anything.  Rather our definitions are different.

These days, I wouldn't say normal talking is forcing even though it basically is narration nor would I say that normally spending time with him is forcing or something. I guess whatever you do that is forming the tulpa is forcing but once your tulpa basically is well developed enough, I wouldn't call the time you spend with them after that forcing.

Do you consider forcing to be what creates a tulpa, not what sustains it?   Aren't they pretty similar actions?

Re: Half-formed tulpa from the start
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2014, 06:19:01 PM »
I don't think a tupper really needs to be "sustained" after a certain point. Seems like they stick around no matter what if they're independent enough and can amuse themselves. And at that point hanging out together really becomes just that, hanging out together. Normal interaction, while I'd say forcing is more about that creation and early process stuff when you actually have to put in more effort into it. Can't honestly call our normal everyday life forcing as this is quite different from how it was when I was still trying to get the tupper to be vocal.

I'd say there's a difference so it feels silly to be calling two things that just feel so different as the same thing, you know?