Author Topic: I don't know how to tulpaforce and it feels like a chore to me at this point  (Read 16895 times)

I'm sorry if this post is a mess, I got two hours of sleep last night and even ignoring that I have no idea where to really begin with my situation here so you'll have to deal with my life story I guess. Also, Sands is probably going to spank me if s/he remembers me from when I was in the IRC a little while ago complaining about not knowing what to do because I had gotten so much help from there and yet I still went nowhere with it. I have an excuse though, which I think I illustrated in the title of this thread.

Basically I had been tulpaforcing since November 2012, using the "assume all responses as real and eventually they'll become real" method for vocality, and things were going great. I was talking to my tulpa all the time and things were awesome, although she was totally incapable of parallel processing or possession or anything that would give any actual proof that everything she did wasn't directly caused by me. But I ignored that and kept at it. But then, about halfway down the line, I started thinking about what the responses felt like. Hmm. It doesn't feel like there's another entity in my head, nothing is alien, everything she says goes down exactly how I want and plan for it to go down, I can't hear anything if I just relax and listen, her responses feel like I'm just talking in her voice........ Oh, of course! I'm a fucking idiot who has been consciously puppeting every aspect of her while somehow believing she was sentient, and I've had a fake tulpa for the past 5 months! Hahaha.

So I stopped that and started waiting to see if I could hear her. I'd ask her a question and instead of parroting I'd relax, focus on her, and wait. Nothing. I'd like to say I had my moment of "fuck my life" right then and there, but it came along more as a gradual buildup of hopelessness that was only made stronger and stronger by the unstoppable passage of time as month after month passed by without me ever hearing anything.

Actually, I heard one legitimate response. One. And it was one that I was incredibly grateful for and something I desperately needed to avoid the possibility of me dismissing the entire phenomenon as fake and just giving up, but it was months ago. She told me she loved me. It was great. It came out of absolutely nowhere when I wasn't even thinking about her speaking and it felt totally alien and there was no way to mistake it, unless my memory of the moment has been retroactively altered to make it seem more real than it really was (though I'm not quite pessimistic enough to believe something like that).

But ever since that moment it's just been nothing. And I don't blame my tulpa one bit because it's completely my fault. I never pay any attention to her. I have an active forcing session maybe once every two weeks or so, which lasts for about half an hour and consists mainly of visualization since I don't know what the hell else to do in an active forcing session since I'm the most clueless and unimaginably terrible tulpaforcer who has ever existed. Now, I do have plans to enforce daily forcing sessions, but they're going to be 30 minutes of me not knowing what I'm doing and struggling to get anywhere because it's not enjoyable and I have no actual desire to do it.

See, that's the thing. To me, this is the most important thing I'm doing in my life right now, and yet I never feel like doing it. It's a torturous contradiction. But can you really blame me when I spent several months becoming used to the idea of having a vocal tulpa, only to be struck down with the realization that it was all fake and I can't actually hear anything she's saying? It's at least a little bit discouraging, to be frank with you.

I have an absolutely absurd amount of free time, and I would like to dedicate at least most of that to tulpaforcing. Ideally it would be awesome if I spent multiple hours every day on it. But there's a difference between wanting to do something and a willingness to do it, and I don't have the will for this anymore. I need it back. If I could just hear her, things would be so much better. I want to do whatever it takes to achieve actual vocality. But to get that, I need to focus on her, and I just can't get myself to do that. For vocality, I just need to talk to her and wait for her to talk back, right? But one-sided conversations aren't something I have a desire to experience, especially considering the fact that she's supposed to be the talkative one who asks me to do things with her and I'm more of a quiet person who just goes along with stuff. Ugh, listen to me making up these excuses, I just... I don't even know what I'm asking for here. I know I'm lazy and incompetent and I don't know if it's possible for anyone to help me, but I really, really, really need this. Something needs to change as soon as possible, otherwise I'll just continue spending an indefinite amount of time ignoring her all day, then briefly acknowledging her right before I go to sleep to apologize for ignoring her, and then doing the same thing the next day and the day after that for months and months and months while my resolve continues to get worse and worse.

tl;dr I started this 11 months ago and have lost the desire to do this so much that I'm pretty sure I'm actually worse off than I was when I started (did I mention that my visualization is worse than it was before I started?) with the increased bonus of having nowhere near the amount of excitement and determination I had in the beginning. I feel like I fucked up beyond repair, and if it IS repairable, the process will now feel like tedious labor rather than fun-filled daydreaming.

I guess I really want to point you in the direction of this. I think you're just another of those victims who were told to blindly believe no matter what and it later on bit them in the ass. I can't say you can really be blamed when it was something spread by others. Always thought it was a bad way of forcing.

Yeah we did talk a lot some time ago, can't remember all of it though you probably remember it better. You're damn right you'll be spanked.

Well, you gotta accept the fact that if you want to get there, you are going to have to work. I do suggest that you have short sessions so you can easily leave, sit down and chill with the tulpa without having to procrastinate and be all ugggh such a chore, I'd rather be online for five more minutes. Procrastination is a bitch, but you can only really stop it by starting to do whatever it was that you had to do. You have to realize that.

Though of course forcing doesn't have to be a chore. I don't know what you find enjoyable, so I can't really help there. I can give you some ideas for what to do, though. Maybe.

You say that your visualization sucks and that you have no idea what to talk about when narrating. Narration is a super important tool in tulpaforcing so of course this is a skill you have to learn and it will definitely help with building that sentience. One-sided conversations are hard, yeah, not much to go with. But hey, how about you either look at wonderland clouds if you want to practice visualization too or just go outside to look at real clouds. Or look at videos of clouds of something. It's easy to see shapes in the clouds, so you could use them to give you ideas. That one cloud looks like a duck? Tell her all you know about ducks. Tell her what you think about them and maybe ask her what she thinks about them. Give her some time to answer, in case she does. Listen, but not just with your ears. A response from a non-vocal and even a vocal tulpa could come in many different forms. Oh, and if you look at wonderland clouds, you won't know if the clouds have been affected by your tulpa or not, so you could possibly be allowing her to ask you questions without her having to be able to talk or you questioning if it was omg really her, because it doesn't matter. Clouds, see, talk. If it was her, it doesn't matter, because you're talking about what you see anyways. If she asked you, you answered even if you didn't think it came from her.

Visualization, stare at her some more. I think you were the guy who felt weird with staring at a chick, but come on. If she was annoyed with it, she'd let you know. An excellent way to bait possible reactions, huh? Maybe at some point you'd like to do some imposition-lite, too. I often went outside when Roswell was young and "took" him with me by imposing. I didn't see him or anything, sometimes felt. Either his presence or touch, but it didn't matter. I could hold his hand and lead him, I could show him things and talk about them. In my mind of course because I don't want to show my power level. I would go shopping with him and explain things, also asking him questions now and then. It was an excellent way to make him a part of my life and also narrate and get ideas for what to talk about.

I think I did suggest you to try to learn to visualize better, as an image you can follow might help you see responses from your tulpa before you get actual words out of her. I still think it's a good idea, but you can easily work on narration and visualization (and maybe that imposition-lite, huh?) on different days so it doesn't get too boring and samey. Maybe you want to start with visualizing something you can and/or really want to, so you get started and get the hang of it. If you can visualize one thing, you'll be able to visualize, well, everything. Trust me on that.

I said this once but I'll say it again to stress it. Don't just listen for a response with your ears. You might be able to see or just plain feel it. They might not be words, but it can be a response and you definitely can get somewhere with it.

This won't help with everything and I probably said many things I already said in the past that didn't help you at all, but hey. Words. See if they help you at all.

I see a disturbing lack of "I tried Fede's method" in your wall of text, Makoggegoge... I'll just say Mako. The "narration method" is a very long and drawn-out process that I got pretty tired of early on when I was new to this. Like you, I'm not much of a "Hey let's comment on everything." guy, either. I'm intrigued to see what would happen if you tried my method and began using Eye-Bo daily. My method relies on parroting and autosuggestion; you're supposed to not care and just go with it, kinda like Colonel's linked tl;dr somewhat explains.

When I began the parroting, I acknowledged that everything, at least in the beginning, was just part of my imagination, and both me and my tupper just laughed it off and carried on. There was no need to wait for an "alien feeling" or worry about "legitimacy", even despite the fact that I knew it was just me talking to myself. I didn't care and it felt great not having to care about it. As time went on, my little habit had become so established that it felt odd to not get a response from my tupper. The process had become automatic. Bam.

As for Eye-Bo, oh man, this thing will help you visualise in no time if you just consistently use it. Normally, I say the minimum is 30 minutes a day of Eye-Bo, but the more you use it, the faster you'll get better at visualising. I recommend using either theta or alpha for this.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 03:40:21 AM by Fede »

Compared to that, always believing should be good for both, right? Well, in my honest opinion, I disagree. I have seen firsthand how a person believed in their tulpas and was hoping to go further down the rabbit hole. But as time passed and not much progress was made other than having a mindvoice coming from the tulpas, an ugly problem reared its head. To the person, the tulpa just felt like themselves, just as if they were parroting. But the host believed and didn't doubt, because it would get better, surely. But it never did. The feeling of the tulpa just being the host didn't go anywhere and now even worse doubts became a part of them. Because the host blindly believed and hadn't questioned anything at all, nothing was left once they started doubting those responses they first thought were real. It was easy to believe in the start, but became impossible later on. They never got over the hurdle where they truly could believe in the tulpa after a lot of work, thinking and dedication, because they thought they never had to jump and the jump would be made for them later on. And once the host got to this point, the jump no longer was possible in their eyes.

Wow, for a minute I actually thought you were talking about me there, even though we don't really know each other.

Ok, so here's the thing. First let me just thank the both of you, as you two are actually helping a lot... or you would be if I knew which method to go with. Both make a lot of sense to me and I appreciate the clear-cut instructions and I feel like I'd know what to do now if I could decide on which one to go with.

Fede, everything you said in your first paragraph really chimes with me. And I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to go with the method that sounds like I would be the best with, but I sort of forgot to mention in my first post that I had pretty much been using your method up until the moment everything fell apart because of my realization. "Don't give a fuck about whether the response is real or not" is a better way of describing what I was doing than "Believe everything is real", although I probably started having more blind belief as time went on. And it was going fine until I realized that none of the responses felt alien and she couldn't do possession and... well, everything I said in my first post. I really like your method, but I have doubts about its legitimacy. Is a response process that becomes automated by getting used to it the same thing as hearing an alien voice inside your head as if you have schizophrenia? Is the tulpa able to have parallel processing, is it able to possess and switch with you? (And I'm not talking about the "possibly sending urges while the host acts on them and bullshits himself" kind of possession, I'm talking about the "holy shit i just got fucking POSSESSED" kind of possession.)

I'm in no way criticizing your guide, I could have easily just given up on it before I really started to make progress with it for all I know. But if I'm going to be using it again, I need to know that the realizations I made about my tulpa's legitimacy simply came about prematurely and that she would have become more independent if I stuck with it.

And Sands, your post here is under the assumption that I know the potential responses are just me parroting, but the post you linked to assumes that I'm getting responses that I'm unsure of. Honestly, I kind of don't know how people can wonder if they're parroting or not; if they can't just wait and see if they hear/feel a response, and instead they have to consciously do something that results in their tulpa saying something (but only when the host does that thing), isn't that parroting? Sure, the case could be made that you're actively listening for a response rather than creating one yourself, but to me that just feels like another excuse that was made up to support the "believe everything" mindset. I feel like those are the types of responses you're talking about in the linked thread (though correct me if I'm wrong), whereas your post here acts as guidance to hearing actual alien responses, rather than actively seeking out those uncertain responses like I had been doing until I made the decision to avoid parroting. Both your post here and the one you linked seem like very sound advice to me, but they seem to contradict each other (either that or I'm just misinterpreting everything).

I would personally prefer to go with Fede's method, or a combination of his method and the advice you gave in the linked thread, but I'm going to hold off on that until I know for certain that it actually leads to a real tulpa (no offense fede you're still cool).

also fede i tried eye-bo a few times and one time i kept it up for 20 minutes and saw noticeable improvements in my visualization but it regressed back to shit after i went back to being lazy and did nothing for a few days afterwards so yeah i'll probably start doing that regularly once i start having my daily half-hour forcing sessions, assuming that level of use won't make my brain want to vomit
though i have no idea if it was the eye-bo itself that helped me or it was the fact that i actually managed to visualize for 20 minutes straight and i sort of don't know if the thing actually works like you claim it does

It's unfortunate that despite following my method, you apparently still hoped for some sort of epic twist that would totally "confirm its sentience". What you should realise regarding my method is that you shouldn't at all expect any sort of "turning event" or "sign of sentience". The parroting - the simulation of the tupper's behaviour, essentially - is a simple habit that you condition yourself into doing automatically. Nothing more. There may be some oddities and hallucinations happening along the way, but they're not guaranteed for everyone. That is, unless one uses Eye-Bo multiple times daily, of course.

Feats like parallel processing take a subjective amount of time. A dude that's very talented at keeping a near-constant focus on making his tupper do things, even while he's working on his own thing, will likely achieve parallel processing much faster. The simple reason for that is because he ends up thinking in, hence the term, parallel: one moment he's thinking about how he's going to solve some thing he's doing, and the next moment he's thinking about flowers and what to do when getting home, the latter of which would be what the tupper would be thinking, and his thought train basically repeats like that. Eventually, the tupper thoughts become so intricately involved that he's hardly be able to keep track of both lines of thought anymore, but the tupper thoughts are still there, and the imaginary form associated with it still behaves according to those thoughts. He has fragmented his mind into thinking multiple things. You know, like the schizophrenics you mention.

It'd be at such a point that you could choose to totally go blind-belief mode if you'd seriously wish to for whatever reason, or, you could roll along with it, not worry, and just have fun with it. It'd be at that point that you in your head would have another personality whose thoughts you would hardly be able to block out. You could be asking yourself "if it's really you or your tupper", but who'd give a damn if the habit would already have been established and the process by then automated? But, as said, it takes focus to consistently make the tupper do the things its personality tells it to do and reach this point.

As for doubting the "legitimacy" of my guide, that's just well-gay, blud. My guide is a sampling of various techniques, tips, and general guidance from my point of view. You can and probably have selectively chosen what works best for you. Of course, I think you should just go with all of the stuff I write in it, but that's up you. But what you really should do is give up all that crap about "believing in your tupper" or expecting some milestone thing to happen, or else you'll just be waiting forever. It's a gradual process. Just try to have fun, dude. My method is first and foremost about autosuggestion, not belief. Some people incorporate some sort of faith element into their approach, which I accept, but nonetheless discourage, because then one is missing the point of the autosuggestion altogether. I've seen way too many people go "I'm using Fede's method to make my tupper vocal." Really? Jesus Christ, man.

And Goddamn it, get back to using Eye-Bo. Giving up on using it after 20 minutes even though you visualised better while playing it? What. And if you want any proof to my "claims" of Eye-Bo's effect, go take a look at some articles.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 02:45:53 AM by Fede »

Hah, yeah, the story about blindly believing. It wasn't about you, but if you see it being pretty similar to what you went through... I think that's proof that blindly believing isn't the best way to do this, huh? It's not a single case that had it backfire, it's more than one person.

And Sands, your post here is under the assumption that I know the potential responses are just me parroting, but the post you linked to assumes that I'm getting responses that I'm unsure of. Honestly, I kind of don't know how people can wonder if they're parroting or not; if they can't just wait and see if they hear/feel a response, and instead they have to consciously do something that results in their tulpa saying something (but only when the host does that thing), isn't that parroting? Sure, the case could be made that you're actively listening for a response rather than creating one yourself, but to me that just feels like another excuse that was made up to support the "believe everything" mindset. I feel like those are the types of responses you're talking about in the linked thread (though correct me if I'm wrong), whereas your post here acts as guidance to hearing actual alien responses, rather than actively seeking out those uncertain responses like I had been doing until I made the decision to avoid parroting. Both your post here and the one you linked seem like very sound advice to me, but they seem to contradict each other (either that or I'm just misinterpreting everything).

Yeah, I don't really see where your first sentence comes from. I mean, I'm not a good writer so it's very easily for me to write one thing and mean something else, so if something I said felt like it said something else and you can show it to me, I'll read it and tell you what I actually meant. Sorry if I didn't really word myself correctly but I guess I'll write some more words in case they help explain a few things. Warning this is massive tl;dr and woflo is going to hate me for this, help. I hope you will be able to get to the end, though. Won't blame you if you don't.

Sure, it's obvious when you parrot your tulpa. You make them say things, ta-dah. But it's still a very common question. Especially early on, it was a constant battle of making the tulpa prove themselves to have done that before you bought any of it and unless it was an auditory hallucination that was completely alien, your tulpa didn't say it and it was just you parroting them. That's why I felt it was really important to talk about whether or not it is you tulpa and why it just doesn't matter early on when you are starting out.

Is listening parroting? I'd say it's not. I can tell you some things I've experienced when working on a tulpa and I can also tell you stuff others have told me, so believe what you want. A young tulpa is rarely strong. Their voice is faint and difficult to hear. How do you expect your young and weak tulpa to overpower all your other thoughts so they can be heard? Besides, how would they answer when you're already talking? That would be kinda rude.

I tell people to stop and listen because it was a problem with me. I was talking to him, telling him stuff and asking him questions... Except I never stopped to let him answer. It didn't even matter to me if he did or didn't, I just talked. I don't think "he's not going to answer, so why bother waiting for it?" is the best mindset when working with tulpas and trying to get them vocal. You're training yourself to have something else responding to you in your mind and in my case, it definitely was more about learning how to listen. Guess what? Later on I did notice that Roswell could give me signs of his answer. Not actual words, those came much later, but all kinds of other feelings I found I couldn't quite replicate perfectly myself, so they at least were something I could go with. Did I believe yet? I didn't, but I was being pretty stupid when I wasn't waiting for a possible response when I could get some if I just gave him a few seconds to actually respond. Surely I could've had a vocal tulpa much earlier if I just wasn't in such a hurry to just talk and talk.

So why does it help when I let him respond and I don't even fully believe it was my tulpa? Narration. Like you said, it's difficult to have a one-sided conversation. There's only so much I can talk about myself and the questions I ask my tulpa are pretty worthless if I don't even try waiting. So, let's say I do get a response of some sort. Maybe it's an obvious yes or no, or maybe it's something else. Just a feeling. Maybe you are talking about those ducks and suddenly you get the feeling of "let's talk about dogs instead". No words, mind you, just a feeling, a hunch. Was it you or your tulpa? It doesn't matter. Start talking about dogs. If it was you, well, you probably were running out of duck things to say and if you weren't, you can talk about ducks again later. You didn't push it on your tulpa in case it wasn't them. If it was your tulpa, you actually followed what they said. They saw they got noticed and it surely will make them feel better and will train you to be able to pick up all kinds of responses. You don't have to believe, so it's not a blindly believe everything mindset. You just follow it if the idea you got sounds good. Don't follow stupid ideas, of course. Or talk about why the idea is stupid.

My tulpa would move once he had a form. At first I had a problem with keeping everything still, but then I managed to relax and just let things happen in my imagination. I'm the kind of a person who has a really good control over their imagination, so this included learning how to not be such a control freak. So, anyways, tulpa would move. Would I believe it was the tulpa? I didn't. I didn't care, it was or wasn't. At one point though, I just had to say that hey, you know, you've surprised me so many times that either it's you or I'm good at lying to myself. I don't really care what it is, so I'll just go with "it's you". So I did.

I did the same to many other kinds of responses, as well. I didn't doubt, but I didn't believe. I let it come and once it started to look more and more like it wasn't me, I could allow myself to start actually trusting it. Him getting vocal was the same. Do you think I got some omg alien sound out of nowhere? No, sure as hell I didn't. Actually let's go back a bit and I'll remind you that back when I heard about tulpas, what you were supposed to get from the tulpa would be this alien voice that is totally like some other person's voice. Strong, clear, obvious. That's one of the reasons why both of the early guides said that it will take hundreds of hours of forcing to get a vocal tulpa, because actually getting those hallucinations when you're in an aware state is pretty difficult. Luckily for us though, "mindvoice" started to become a thing after vocal tulpas chewed at their hosts for not fucking listening to them when they tried to get their attention. We learned to listen with other things than just our ears.

So, anyways, I got a response after tons of work and symbolism and shit to make us able to do it. Did I believe it? No. If it was him, it was. If it wasn't, it wasn't. It wasn't some special moment for me where I finally knew I had a sapient tulpa (that actually came before vocality) that could speak. But, I allowed it to happen. Later on I started thinking. You know, it was pretty similar to me, so maybe it was me. But it also was different. It was slower, the speech pattern wasn't identical, the words he used weren't ones I'd use. It came from a different spot in my head - I know, sounds weird but it makes sense to me - and well, the voice that seemed similar to my own opposed some things I felt really strongly about. Hell, should I still disbelieve all that? I could, but whatever it was, I had a voice in my head that had opinions of its own. That's tulpa enough for me, so I let it be. I definitely did have to stop and let him talk seeing that he was super slow and pretty quiet, but it only got better from there as we practiced and talked more. And then we could have actual conversations.

Could you wait for the totally alien hallucination? Maybe. But it's not that easy to get those hallucinations. It would take a ton of work and then you probably would doubt that too, because you realized you can cause hallucinations yourself. Usually, what the tulpa can do, you can do. Sometimes it might take some practice to be able to do it just right, but you're going to be able to get pretty close in many cases...

Anyways, even now when I'm really into something, it's really hard to get me a message across. Roswell has taken to just giving me a short message of yo slow down, I wanna talk. Which I then do and he says what he wanted to say when I'm not busy with something else. Don't know about you, but I basically think in a mindvoice all the time. My head is a really busy and loud place, so it's not too easy to get anything in, especially if you want me to notice it. A clever tulpa tries many forms of communication and sees which ones they can do and which ones you actually hear. If you block all their possible methods of communicating, well, you're not going to be doing too well.

A good state for listening is a relaxed one. I didn't use to understand what it meant when others talked about it, but I do now. You let your thoughts just flow freely without trying to stop them, as you might very well stop a response. You're not trying to fill your head with thoughts, or they will drown everything. Just let them go. If you hear something, you don't have to believe if you're skeptical. It's good material for narration - or maybe you could even see if you can hold a conversation with the voice. All good material for later narration, when you talk about what you experienced to your tulpa and ask them if they were there. Even if you don't hear anything, it's not a bad thing. Sometimes it's good to slow down and just listen to what's going on in your head.

Fede's stuff might help you with visualization, but I have never tried it myself. At least not long enough to see if it would help, but you did report that Eye-Bo helped. I guess when you talk to me and Fede, you gotta keep in mind that I think tulpas are sapient even though I have no proof of it, while Fede thinks that they're not even though he has no proof of it. Do I believe in my own tulpa these days? I do. Does he believe in his tulpas? I think he does. And I probably got his exact view wrong because it's hard to explain in one sentence, but our views are pretty different. Do what you think is the best.

If you have parallel processing, you have other organised thoughts going on in your mind that you may or may not be aware of; the ones that "your tupper is thinking" as far as the belief goes. I thought it was self-explanatory that once there's parallel processing, there are also the added perks of being able to train possession and switching. I really don't get what all the fuss with being so worried about a "total epic failure" from using my method is all about. There's no need to worry if you'd feel like you're progressing either way and have fun doing it. Who would ever want to stop having fun? The only way I can prove to you that my method would be beneficial to you is if you try it yourself and put your damnedest effort into fragmenting your mind.

I mean, you even put up the black-and-white options yourself: go down the pain train and hope for "legitimate answers", which is purely a belief if I need to remind you, or go down the fun-filled forest path of joy-filled daydreams and happy times, in which case whether or not you choosing to believe that something is legitimate is only an optional belief that you don't have to worry about because you'd be too busy having fun? I don't have a lot more to say, since I think you get the point of my method and the whole deal with autosuggestion creating a habit that you can't get out of like a drug. Go choose your path, traveller.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 02:45:06 AM by Fede »

(this is all in response to fede, see footnote at bottom of post)

Ok, thanks. The reason I'm making such a big deal about being absolutely certain is because I want to make sure I don't end up doing it in a wrong way for 6 months straight only to come to the realization that my tulpa is fake and I just wasted all that time when I could have been making actual progress with her. I'll probably be using your method, or a combination of parroting and listening for responses that feel like parroting anyway so it's pretty much the same thing throughout with the bonus possibility of the other responses being real.

Like I asked in my last post, though, do you two think I simply gave up before I started making progress in all the tulpa magic-related things? I ask because I'm probably going to be repeating essentially the exact same things I was doing before The Great Undoing, but with more focus on some recommendations in Fede's guide (such as having the tulpa start conversations and trying to impose and focus on her as much as possible, although I was already imposing before, albeit very badly and lazily). Her lack of ability to do anything cool was a pretty significant reason that led me to give up. Vocality was no problem whatsoever, and so I tried moving onto other things like possession, but it just wasn't working. I guess I was just expecting things to come about earlier than they were supposed to. And when I think about the idea that I could get fuller parallel processing and possession from that, it still feels too good to be true. But, that aside, I guess I should be focusing on vocality until it becomes automated enough to count as parallel processing, and THEN move onto things like possession, right?

Oh, and one last annoying, repeated question (unless I have reason to ask another one later). I already mentioned the difference between the bullshitting-yourself possession where you lie to yourself and pretend it's actually your tulpa moving your arm when it's really you (I remember being really impressed by certain people when I saw that their tulpas could possess them, until I read things like "I made sure to believe it was her" and realized what was most likely going on), and the kind where it doesn't feel like you're the one sending signals to your arm and you're able to totally relax and still have the tulpa move it on its own, something which is impossible with the first type of possession I just described. We ARE still talking about the second one, right? I know I'm being paranoid here and probably shouldn't even need to ask this question, but I just need it to be confirmed that such a thing is possible using these methods. You said possession is possible but I just want to make sure you're not one of those people who defines possession as my first example. I doubt you are, but, you know, nagging suspicions in my mind that could potentially haunt me and cause me to doubt everything I'm doing and all that.

I started typing all of that before you made your post, Sands (yes i am that slow at making these posts), and I don't really have anything to say to it other than thanks for the encouragement and confirmation.

Whenever anyone asks me about possession, the type of possession I normally teach is "guided possession". This is not bullshit-yourself possession like the one you described where some guys went "lol I'm controlling the arm but I'm telling myself it's the tupper." It's not "relax and let the tupper take over" possession, either; I know for a fact that that's the type of possession Colonel usually teaches. In the case of guided possession, the possession itself is a collaborative effort between you and the tupper where you aim the limbs and the tupper sends impulses that gradually become stronger. Parallel processing, at least at some level, is pretty much a requisite.

What you do is you take a limb like, say, your hand, and tell your tupper to bend one of the fingers. Assuming your tupper is cooperative, you'll either feel a slightly tickling impulse or otherwise some sort of "urge" to bend the finger. What you do here is amplify the force of that impulse. Don't overdo it; just amplify it enough to bend the finger a bit. You're not supposed to take control of the finger or willingly bend it the way you normally would when not practicing possession. The impulse is supposed to be the driving force. As you do this more and more over time, you won't have to amplify the force of the impulses as much and the tupper will be able to handle the stuff by itself. Eventually, you can train things like the tupper sending impulses to aim the limbs so you won't have to do that, either.

This is the type of possession I practiced when I started out doing it in January. As a result of these shenanigans, I currently find myself doing the weirdest Goddamn facial expressions and bodily things because my redhead tupper likes to further emphasise the emotion she's feeling and share it with me or something, gawd. It's like I'm half her or something, whoa. We've only done several-minute long full-body possession a few times, as going along that route wasn't the original plan. I just toyed around with it and now look what has happened.

I wouldn't say you have to "move on to possession", although you probably have different goals. I just see possession as a tool, not a necessity, but hey. Also, your likely intention of "using my method but looking out for authentic responses over time" is worrisome. It seems like you're still missing the point. Either that, or I'm missing the point of your point. You can't say "I'm gonna use Fede's method by parroting her." and "I'm gonna listen out for responses that feel real." Then you're not using my method. Instead, you're using some mish-mash thing that has some sort of "Don't worry, this parroting is only temporary, it'll be over soon." thought behind it. When you use my method, the parroting is permanent; you never really know when it's over, and you shouldn't care, but it seems to me that you still care, when you shouldn't.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 02:45:03 AM by Fede »

lol. What a nice, little frontload we managed to dump onto you. A total coincidence that you receive a "response that felt like her" after all this talk about authenticity and the striving thereof. Yep, totally random. And you still give too much of a fuck, but seems like you're going to be stubborn. Can't blame you for doing 90% the same thing you've been doing so far.

And what's this? You think what you were doing was parroting without realising it? And you hope that's true? Ah, dude, whatever. Your whole "omg this has to be real and not fake" thing is a problematic route and requires tremendous amounts of belief. Heck, even the "listening without the ear" is just a belief, too. Damn, I need to take a piss. Damn, I feel like eating a cookie. Damn, I wonder what flowers covered in mustard smell like. Damn, I think my tupper would probably want to say something so the fact that I'm thinking it wants to say something means it wants to say something! Whoa, these are all tuprah thoughts! Yeah, whatever, dude.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:46:13 AM by Fede »

Hey, stubborn people go far when they direct their stubborness in the right place. Everyone has their own beliefs about this, so it's pretty impossible to say your own are the right ones. Just ones that worked for you if they worked, I guess.

The difference between not giving a damn and blindly believing is that in the former, you never really believed in the first place so you're not fooling yourself and can't suddenly realize that it all was a lie. Because there was no lie, just something you saw/felt/heard and didn't know enough about to draw a conclusion. Doesn't mean it has to be dismissed, you just study it until it makes sense in a way you understand.

I know I'm just doing 90% of the same thing I was doing before, but the thing is that I'm pretty sure the method was working just fine, I just worried way too much over it. You guys have actually been of immense help here; I kind of doubted that I'd ever know what to do as far as tulpaforcing goes, but now I feel like I understand and I'm free to go back to actually forcing and doing things and having fun with it.

I do get what you guys are saying, though, or at least I think I do. You're trying to make sure the same thing that happened to me last time doesn't happen again as a result of worrying over the authenticity of responses, right? That's probably a legitimate concern, but the responses are going to feel more and more authentic as time goes on, aren't they? The "alien voice" stage of vocality is what I'm striving for, but now I know that I need to be patient until it gets to that point. So unless it ends up taking so long that it feels like progress is never going to be made, I think I should be fine. And, yes, I know you guys are trying to tell me to stop caring about the authenticity at all so that bad things won't happen if it does end up taking that long, but now I know not to just give up if that ends up happening. Sure, I might make a thread being like "why isn't my tulpa's vocality improving fasterrrrr" if it starts to feel hopeless, but I'm not going to do the same thing I did last time.

I know I'm probably still missing the point here, but I can't help it. "Stubborn" is indeed very accurate when describing me. I dunno, I just can't personally see much of a problem here. I know there's probably a few of them, but I'm blind to them. Sorry.

... Wait, no. I'm reading everything I just typed and I think I'm starting to get it, actually. You're telling me that I'm focusing too much over an arbitrary indicator of tulpa realness (the alien voice feeling) when I shouldn't worry about making progress at all and instead just have fun with it, with the progress coming naturally in the background. Or something close to that, anyway. Right? Because I think I understand that now. I can't say whether or not I'll actually have that philosophy when tulpaforcing, though; I agree that it's for the best, but I'm just too personally obsessed with making progress. I think it's a low enough level of obsession that I SHOULD be mostly ok, though. And I'll try to stop worrying since I know it's for the best, even if I don't do that good a job at it.