Tulpas > Questions and Answers

I don't know how to tulpaforce and it feels like a chore to me at this point

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Sands:
Was your tulpa already sapient and on her way to independence? Who knows, probably not even you. It doesn't really matter until you can say you are sure about it. Do I think that you kinda made the wrong decision when you stopped? Yeah, sounds like you could have gone somewhere and probably would've come out much stronger after you dealt with what was troubling you with her. That tends to happen to many others who think they parrot everything the tulpa does and have their tulpa get pretty mad or sad about it. Unfortunately not every tulpa will be able to voice their opinion when the host just turns away and never looks back...

There's many ways to get a tulpa and you probably are going to have to find your own Method™ even when you follow someone else's guide. Guides are, after all, just guidelines. Making a tulpa is a very personal process and you're the only one who can really decide anything based on how it feels.

Parallel processing and such are actually skills many young tuppers lack. There were many tulpas that had just gotten vocal and were kinda lamenting about it in the past, when I actually was in the IRC channels and such back in the day. Things like these are something that develops with time as you give more and more attention to your tulpa... And I guess they have to figure out things by themselves, too. Encouraging them to think and do things on their own without you might help.

Makogeddon:
(this is all in response to fede, see footnote at bottom of post)

Ok, thanks. The reason I'm making such a big deal about being absolutely certain is because I want to make sure I don't end up doing it in a wrong way for 6 months straight only to come to the realization that my tulpa is fake and I just wasted all that time when I could have been making actual progress with her. I'll probably be using your method, or a combination of parroting and listening for responses that feel like parroting anyway so it's pretty much the same thing throughout with the bonus possibility of the other responses being real.

Like I asked in my last post, though, do you two think I simply gave up before I started making progress in all the tulpa magic-related things? I ask because I'm probably going to be repeating essentially the exact same things I was doing before The Great Undoing, but with more focus on some recommendations in Fede's guide (such as having the tulpa start conversations and trying to impose and focus on her as much as possible, although I was already imposing before, albeit very badly and lazily). Her lack of ability to do anything cool was a pretty significant reason that led me to give up. Vocality was no problem whatsoever, and so I tried moving onto other things like possession, but it just wasn't working. I guess I was just expecting things to come about earlier than they were supposed to. And when I think about the idea that I could get fuller parallel processing and possession from that, it still feels too good to be true. But, that aside, I guess I should be focusing on vocality until it becomes automated enough to count as parallel processing, and THEN move onto things like possession, right?

Oh, and one last annoying, repeated question (unless I have reason to ask another one later). I already mentioned the difference between the bullshitting-yourself possession where you lie to yourself and pretend it's actually your tulpa moving your arm when it's really you (I remember being really impressed by certain people when I saw that their tulpas could possess them, until I read things like "I made sure to believe it was her" and realized what was most likely going on), and the kind where it doesn't feel like you're the one sending signals to your arm and you're able to totally relax and still have the tulpa move it on its own, something which is impossible with the first type of possession I just described. We ARE still talking about the second one, right? I know I'm being paranoid here and probably shouldn't even need to ask this question, but I just need it to be confirmed that such a thing is possible using these methods. You said possession is possible but I just want to make sure you're not one of those people who defines possession as my first example. I doubt you are, but, you know, nagging suspicions in my mind that could potentially haunt me and cause me to doubt everything I'm doing and all that.

I started typing all of that before you made your post, Sands (yes i am that slow at making these posts), and I don't really have anything to say to it other than thanks for the encouragement and confirmation.

Makogeddon:
Huh, the possession you described is actually pretty much exactly what we were doing. I guess I dismissed it as being fake because I couldn't relax and wait for her to do things, much in the same way I treated vocality. Also, I mentioned possession because switching is one of our goals, and I'm guessing we can't switch if she can't control the body. Full body possession alone would be enough since it's her influence on the real world we're after, not the whole "host escapes to imaginary world of wonders" aspect (though that sounds pretty cool too), as long as it's actually her sending the impulses and doing everything without my consent.

Your last paragraph worried me when I first read it, although now that I think about it, I'm probably not technically using your method since I think what I'm doing counts as listening rather than parroting. Or maybe it doesn't? I don't know, but I'm going to take the advice both of you seem to agree on and stop caring about it. To summarize my current plans:

I'm going to be listening for her in the same way I was doing originally, in a way that might count as parroting but might not, and continue doing that until it feels less and less like parroting as it becomes easier and easier to hear her. I actually managed to acknowledge her existence for a brief moment earlier today and she said hi to me; it came about very easily and it didn't even really feel like I was using any effort on my part (maybe a little tiny bit, but whatever). It wasn't totally alien, but it felt partially alien and I'm assuming it'll feel more and more like that as time goes on.

So I guess that isn't technically Fede's Method™, but it definitely isn't waiting in silence until she spontaneously develops the ability to speak to me out of nowhere. So I guess I'm going with Sands after all. I think what I was doing in the beginning probably counted as parroting without me realizing it, but became less and less like it as time went on. Probably. I don't really remember, but I hope that's true. I don't even know though, to me it's a very blurry line between the two methods, the main difference I guess being whether or not you're explicitly controlling your tulpa, even if the other way might feel like you're still doing that sometimes. And whether or not you believe you're parroting. I don't know, maybe the line isn't that blurry. I guess what I should have said is that I might occasionally parrot, probably by accident, but for the most part I'll be listening for responses.

... So, like, the exact opposite of what I said I'd be doing. Wow, I suck at this. Ok, so for another summary: I'm not going to care if it's parroting or not, but I'm going to assume it isn't parroting. This feels suspiciously like the blind belief method, except I'm not going to be lying to myself because I actually know that most of it isn't parroting and that even if it is, it'll slowly stop being parroting as time goes on.

God, I have no idea how I'm still managing to turn everything into a wall of text this far into the thread.

Sands:
Hey, stubborn people go far when they direct their stubborness in the right place. Everyone has their own beliefs about this, so it's pretty impossible to say your own are the right ones. Just ones that worked for you if they worked, I guess.

The difference between not giving a damn and blindly believing is that in the former, you never really believed in the first place so you're not fooling yourself and can't suddenly realize that it all was a lie. Because there was no lie, just something you saw/felt/heard and didn't know enough about to draw a conclusion. Doesn't mean it has to be dismissed, you just study it until it makes sense in a way you understand.

Makogeddon:
I know I'm just doing 90% of the same thing I was doing before, but the thing is that I'm pretty sure the method was working just fine, I just worried way too much over it. You guys have actually been of immense help here; I kind of doubted that I'd ever know what to do as far as tulpaforcing goes, but now I feel like I understand and I'm free to go back to actually forcing and doing things and having fun with it.

I do get what you guys are saying, though, or at least I think I do. You're trying to make sure the same thing that happened to me last time doesn't happen again as a result of worrying over the authenticity of responses, right? That's probably a legitimate concern, but the responses are going to feel more and more authentic as time goes on, aren't they? The "alien voice" stage of vocality is what I'm striving for, but now I know that I need to be patient until it gets to that point. So unless it ends up taking so long that it feels like progress is never going to be made, I think I should be fine. And, yes, I know you guys are trying to tell me to stop caring about the authenticity at all so that bad things won't happen if it does end up taking that long, but now I know not to just give up if that ends up happening. Sure, I might make a thread being like "why isn't my tulpa's vocality improving fasterrrrr" if it starts to feel hopeless, but I'm not going to do the same thing I did last time.

I know I'm probably still missing the point here, but I can't help it. "Stubborn" is indeed very accurate when describing me. I dunno, I just can't personally see much of a problem here. I know there's probably a few of them, but I'm blind to them. Sorry.

... Wait, no. I'm reading everything I just typed and I think I'm starting to get it, actually. You're telling me that I'm focusing too much over an arbitrary indicator of tulpa realness (the alien voice feeling) when I shouldn't worry about making progress at all and instead just have fun with it, with the progress coming naturally in the background. Or something close to that, anyway. Right? Because I think I understand that now. I can't say whether or not I'll actually have that philosophy when tulpaforcing, though; I agree that it's for the best, but I'm just too personally obsessed with making progress. I think it's a low enough level of obsession that I SHOULD be mostly ok, though. And I'll try to stop worrying since I know it's for the best, even if I don't do that good a job at it.

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