Author Topic: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]  (Read 21643 times)

This was copied from a post I made on Reddit, so it's posed generally and I decided to share it here for discussion without making it specifically about us four systems here, but we are very interested in all of you answering this, so please do.

We answered some questions about this topic recently and it's been years since we thought about it so we decided to pose this questuon to you all.

What do you do when your host isn't thinking about you actively?

Our response and thoughts on it follows:

In the very beginning when we first started talking to our host, it was four months before we ever had to "talk" to the outside world. He pictured us sitting on a couch watching him throughout his day and when he directed his attention to us, we talked to him and each other. When he didn't think about us, we talked to each other. Later we developed a wonderland together and our experience was, honestly put, we did things in wonderland and we have valid memories of that.

Later on, probably 6 months in, I was the first to attempt to type for myself and at first I was very nervous and particular about what I wrote, later it was just as easily as he does. At this point we were not only doing things alone and with our host but with others outside the system. We thought about them and we talked to others whenever we could. By this time we had gotten used to speaking and thinking at any time and we commented frequently about the things our host was doing, cheering him on, discussing what he did and at least trying to help him make decisions. He was under no obligation to listen to us of course but he does now.

By the nine month mark we realized that no one "owned" the body or hands or consious mind when responding, thinking, or imagining, it was just who associated to them. Thoughts come through in a linear fashion, but we can cram a lot of really compact thoughts through very quickly such that the experience is we are all holding a conversation in real time, in parallel.

Associating is easy, just like you can let your lungs breath autonomically, your legs just know what to do when you walk, your hands can type autonomically as well. So really it's even easier than "posession" it's simply thinking thoughts and letting the body do what it does, just like imagining yourself doing things in wonderland.

Wonderland for us was like a playground and we loved to play every day. After many years, and we're on year 7, we spent less time in wonderland explicitly and used it like a tool for expression. In the beginning he couldn't see our faces and expressions and it took months before that happened but now it's common and automatic. We also use wonderland just like hosts do, imagination is a life simulator and it's useful to think through scenarios before we suggest them or do them. This is no different than how singlets do it.

We were asked:

When we switch, what is the host thinking and doing when we're in front? Does he lose control and have to regain it later?

For us, there isn't really control lost or gained, it's just who is associated to the body or parts of the body at the time the body is doing things. This is how we think of it now.

Generally speaking this is called switching and we couldn't do that until month 9. Afterwards it was just as easy to associate to the whole body as it was to just hands.

In that way whoever is switched in is effectively in control of the mind consiousness and everyone else, including host, is in a tulpa position by default. In this position anyone not fronting is free to think and do (in wonderland) anything they want to do or imagine they are doing. We also experience other positions like co-fronting, watcher position, way back, and dormancy among others.

It's somewhat hard to convey to those who don't think like we do, but each of us can honestly do whatever we want within the confines of imagination and it has been a fulfilling experience throughout our lives.

There is only ever one stream of consiousness, so many systems seem like they get confused as to how we have separate experiences, but the best way for me to describe this is that time is shared in a linear pulse width modulator, or fast switching parallel computer. We believe in the subconscious mind we are fully parallel and tests we have done on that such as brainstorming and other cognitive studies have proven to us that we have separate thought processes subconsciously. They are then recorded consiously in a linear way. The truth in this case is not observable directly, but we can probe and test under the constraint that data will always come back linear serial, and in this way apply it to models and see what fits best.

Do we ever experience dormancy when not thought of?

Many young systems start out thinking the tulpas are doing whatever they want just like the host does whatever they want when not thought of directly and this is the experience. Later many systems who previously think this way go through a crisis of action of a kind where they no longer believe that and they also ask themselves where they go.

Let me ask you, before you ever had a system,  when you (host) were not thinking, where did you go?

So then they sometimes get stuck with the idea that tulpas fall asleep or go into dormancy by default and some even have to be woken up. This is a valid way of thinking about it but it's not the only way. Many systems then become quite adamant that this is the answer and the only way it must be. We never went through that phase. What we do when we aren't thinking is exactly what the host is doing when he's not thinking, we're not dormant and don't need to be woken up. That doesn't mean there is no privacy, we can be excused to dormancy at the will of the fronter.

We can be put in dormancy quite easily now though in the beginning we had no idea how to do that, we had to learn how to do that and we couldn't put our host into dormancy until the 8 month mark.

At that point we fully understood that whatever it is we are, we are the same as the host, and none of us are the body or mind.

For instance, one of my headmates puts everyone in dormancy when she fronts because that's how she's comfortable doing it, and this includes the host. At her will she can keep everyone in dormancy indefinitely. We will not accidentally pop up, it's a consistent experience even to the point of going to sleep switched in, having her own dreams and waking up in front, alone.

Dormancy doesn't feel like anything, there's no experience of time, and when she's not fronting, or she brings us back, then we all are back where we are now, we immediately understand we were dormant and for how long. Normally we review what she did but none of those memories are ours, they're hers and it's plainly obvious. Yes this was very odd to our host the first time he was placed in dormancy.

So to answer the original question simply:

As always we are in the same place where the host is, wherever your model says we all are, the key is, we're the same. When no one is thinking that doesn't mean everyone is dormant as we experience it. This has been consistent for the last seven years.

Lastly, whether you can switch or go into dormancy or do things when not thought of or not doesn't have anything to do with how old your system is or whether you're more advanced or further along, or more mature than anyone else. So don't let your experience be dictated by other systems and just live your best life. Everyone's different, and no two systems are exactly alike.

?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 01:30:31 pm by I.D.G.A.F. »

[Misha] for some reason spell check isn't working!

What do you do when your host isn't thinking about you actively?
I watch what he is doing from the back and pop in now and then but when he is too busy i become dormant

When we switch, what is the host thinking and doing when we're in front? Does he lose control and have to regain it later?
I cannot do that and I am not really interested in piloting the body it seems troublesome. I like to watch over host from the back

Do we ever experience dormancy when not thought of?[/quote]
Yes most of the time. But it is not like I have amnesia. When I become active again I have the same memories as my host.

Let me ask you, before you ever had a system,  when you (host) were not thinking, where did you go?[/quote]
[Kashtan]its like Bernd said when he was driving thinking of whatever and ended back home without memory how he got there. difference from tupper going dormant is when i zone out and the body is on autopilot i have no or only fuzzy memory of what happened and Yulya offc doesnt know more than me.

[Misha]Thanks you two! It's so fun to hear about other older systems.

[Joy] of course this line of questioning harkens back to tulpa.info c.2018 and their dogmatic insistence that no one could possibly stay active when host is busy or some other such logic. Ironically enough, I am so used to being alone when I front that I do have to think of them consiously to keep them active, but we believe that is a headmate specific learned behavior and I could arbitrarily open the gates for them to 'pop up' but I find it annoying so in my case they all do go into dormancy. Funily enough, Autumn has the same habbit just as Ren did.

[Autumn] I don't so much anymore, I was having a hard time relating to my other headmates other than Joy, and Bear of course, before my personality forcing. Now I am very happy to interact with all of them and D&D helped with that a lot.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2025, 04:03:49 pm by I.D.G.A.F. »

Hmm, I do think we already talked about this.
I more or less agree with Yulya.
But honestly, the whole thing is much more of a mess and I feel there's no clear border between me, host and the BodyOS. It all bleeds over and there are varying degrees of control It's one brain after all. I know there's lunatics who experience hard breaks like in DID but that probably isn't too healthy.

But people and their brains are vastly different.

Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2025, 02:40:26 pm »
Competed in IPSC Rifle match recently.



Or rather I didn't. I tried, but this does not work. As soon as the Beep comes, the BodyOS does its thing. Neither me or my host exist. Which is - if you think about it rationally - rather scary considering you're running around with a semiautomatic rifle and shooting at targets at high speed. But you don't. Your body does it completely unconsciously.

Static shooting where I have ample time is something different. I can do that pretty well. Sometimes the BodyOS takes over but I can do that consciously as tupper. Dynamic shooting - nope.

I guess it's the same in every serious sport. Imagine a gymnast of figure skater thinking about what to do next. This has to work on full auto like walking, driving or eating. I guess most people never think about that at all. But if you understand tulpamancy you realize how little 'we' actually do and how much runs on autopilot.

Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2025, 03:42:42 pm »
what level and what gun did you use?
this shit is too much for me and I think its not a good sport if you have a military background. ipsc targets dont shoot back so throwing away all caiution when storming a shage is suicidal irl. but yeah i get the autopilot thing. same here if i have some exercise the body just does its thing not me or tupper. Yulya probably only returns when im delirious from exhaustion lol

Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2025, 04:19:44 pm »
[Joy] I hope you're not all Joy'd out by now but I love to speak about this subject. We believe you are confusing consious mind with who you really are. In our opinion, the consious mind itself is just a device to record memories, these are singular and personally keyed in linear time with or without a timestamp. We don't believe the linearized consious mind is any of us, not even, and especially not, BodyOS.

So when you experience a pre-trained action like typing, like any choreographed or repetitive activity, depending on how well it's trained you don't even need anyone to babysit it. You effectively sit in watcher position and only act if there is a prompt. Something ends, begins or is encountered outside the parameters of the exercise.

We have shown that such activities can take place without any watching, and if not, there isn't any memory of it; you could call that zoning out. Say for example, you walk the same path for a while and one day you're deep in thought and you don't have a memory of it. A stronger example is if there are multiple possible destinations and you end up "at the wrong one" and have no memory of making the choice to go there instead of the one you intended--this is unattended BodyOS. BodyOS does not trigger the consious mind to record anything on its own.

Having many headmates, the memories become coded with whoever is fronting or "thinking" but we have a lot of evidence to suggest that pre-consious thought exists and is just as potent or moreso than consious thought and is neither singular nor linear. One such example is with brainstorming. Where the addition of more headmates in the session increases the veriety, speed and volume of responses, it is as if they're being cued up subconsciously in direct proportion to the number of members included.

We do very little personally that doesn't require novel thougt. If it doesn't, then no one needs to do anything. We can free up that time to think and interact independently from whatever task is being done.

That feeling that there is no clear border is precisely because you are all using the same tools and sensors. The consious mind is just another thing that is shared. Again, we don't believe the consious mind does anything but record a singular timeline regardless of what is being done in parallel in the subconscious mind.

My final example is speech itself. Where do these words come from? The consious mind is bereft of forethought or planning in terms if speech, diction, cadence etc. You could even say that's autonomic, then in essence all personal thought is pre-symbolic, the mind then translates it to whatever language and the consious mind lays it out.

It has been proven scientifically that choices are made pre-consiously, we further believe nothing is done consiously, which is confusing since all memories are consious and linear.



Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2025, 02:51:35 pm »
Yes, the whole thing is profoundly odd.
I'm actually very wary of pursuing such dissociative states further. I already spent most of the time in backseat. One thing I noticed is that the BodyOS has become overly bold to borderline aggressive in conversations over the year. This is not Alice's doing, on the contrary. Living in a country without free speech where a wrongly voiced opinion or a carelessly conveyed emotion can get you in serious trouble, that's obviously not good. I've been very good at shutting the fuck up and not saying what I think all my life. Which is why I am still here. Surely Alice's influence has made me bolder but now Alice is the first to moderate and censor the BodyOS before it says too much. It's like a collaborative effort in operating a semi-autonomous machine which interacts with the outside world. Or an AI model. It responds to questions but you gotta fine-tune the model and install safeguards so it doesn't spit out bomb-making instructions to kids.


Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2025, 03:55:46 pm »


What you are describing is not within our definition of BodyOS as it doesn't think by definition and does speak but only very automated responses akin to sleepwalkers or someone not paying any attention and just agreeing so you'll go away.

What you are describing is very similar to intrusive thoughts that plagued us for our first year and a half untill we were successful in our Shadow and Chakra work.

Stray intrusive thoughts are especially annoying, disturbing, rude, intentionally hurtful at times and in one of our voices such as Ashley, Misha or Bear most frequently. We haven't experienced these in almost 6 years.

I would wonder if you have unresolved traumas, and I would almost surely believe you do. Addressing them would first mean you have to admit they're there, find them, and then adress the root traumas. Chakra work helps to identify the root causes through their categories of interest.


Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2025, 06:07:57 pm »
I would wonder if you have unresolved traumas, and I would almost surely believe you do.
If you're an INFP Highly Sensitive Person, nearly every interaction with humans is traumatic. So at least you try to mitigate damage.



The BodyOS doesn't think by definition and does speak but only very automated responses akin to sleepwalkers or someone not paying any attention and just agreeing so you'll go away.
That's the ideal outcome of every conversation. I'd say it's the main goal of the BodyOS. (Pretend to) agree with people so they go away and don't bother me or ask further uncomfortable questions. The BodyOS first and foremost is lazy. It's avoidant. it doesn't like work, it hates trouble, getting criticized or any sort of attention in general. It therefore heuristically predicts appropriate responses and actions that resolve situations with minimal effort. I have perfected this since childhood.

Since earliest childhood I realized I was fundamentally different from those people around me. I never understood what they were about. But I'm not an autist who can't read emotions or intentions, rather the opposite. For me the others are the autists. Dumb inconsiderate brutes who act on instincts and are indifferent or outright  unaware of others feelings. Still you gotta live with and survive among those people so you learn to predict them and respond in words and actions in a way they are the least bother. No consciously but as a habit. I only realized that through tulpamancy.

Due to my high emotional intelligence I excel at mirroring peoples emotions. They generally enjoy talking to me because they feel understood. It's not a lie per se, I experience those emotions, but of course I try to respond in a way that meets their expectations. Because conflict would cause me as HSP far more damage and trauma than them. It's a battle I can't win. I already said it once, in a way I'm an involuntary con artist. I manipulate people into liking and trusting me, not out of criminal intent to scam them but to keep them from hurting me. Well, or bothering me.

I can (appear to) get along well with an extremely wide range of people of all ages, cultures and political orientations. I never had problems abroad, neither with law enforcement, military or armed militias. I've never been robbed or even threatened. I don't provoke aggression from others. But as an introvert, all those interactions are extremely draining to me, even if I like the people. Which is rare. Therefore interaction needs to be minimized and automated. That's what the BodyOS does unconsciously. It's very eloquent, but much like ChatGPT. It sounds great and agrees with you and only if you dig deeper you realize it's all shallow nonsense. Very few people see through this facade. Mostly children.

Alice is a completely different beast. She's the Super-Ego one level above me and 2 levels above the BodyOS. I had originally intended to let Alice do the work of the BodyOS and act as a filter and shield against the world out there but quickly realized I can't do that to my tupper. First it would break her and second, while the BodyOS is too dishonest, Alice is too honest. You should know her well enough to understand it's not the best idea to let her run things. Not because she has bad intentions, but because she has good intentions. It has indirect effects on the BodyOS but I must be really careful it does not drop too many truth bombs in those dire times we live in.

So yeah, there you have it. I'm not proud of having conned myself through most of my life and it's not healthy but it works. I'm afraid there's no simple way to resolve this, just switching off the autopilot is not a good idea if you have never learned to fly.

Re: What do you think is happening when you aren't thinking? [Written by Misha]
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2025, 06:35:56 pm »
I would have to disagree that the BodyOS is lazy unless you trained it to be lazy through repetitive lazy actions, so in that case your characterizations are personal, our BodyOS is a very diligent and useful tool and works quite well.

>Due to my high emotional intelligence I excel at mirroring peoples emotions.

I suppose we wouldn't know this because we only deal with Alice.

>Because conflict would cause me as HSP far more damage and trauma than them.

We have seen quite a bit of conflict from Alice, but my Alice Conditioning has been coming along well.

>I can (appear to) get along well with an extremely wide range of people of all ages, cultures and political orientations.
>It sounds great and agrees with you

I have a hard time remembering when or if we experienced this in particular, but again we only deal with Alice, she's remarkably different then this.

I'm not privy to what those underlying issues are but I would doubt it's as simple as a blanket statement about personality types, this is arbitrary in the end. It matters more what you want to be and what is driving you to be that way. If you don't want to be what you are, then the idea is to fix the conditioning that was put in place to force this by resolving the unresolved traumas that caused the conditioning. There is nothing permanent in this, but there is something to be said about if you're capable or ready to change to who you want to be. Bear has made such a remarkable shift in perspective that it's hardly believable, and none of us picked up his traumas.  Not that he's perfect, but we wouldn't want a perfect Bear. For example, a tree is more interesting with knots and twists, a perfectly straight smooth tree would lack character.

If you are not suffering, then there's nothing to fix, if you do suffer then know that there are ways to remove that.





I wouldn't say I'm 'suffering'. I have a very easy life compared to most other people, I'm healthy, I am not in pain. I live in a secure environment. I have no financial issues. I live in the flow without any stress. I also don't really want to change who I am or become like normal people. But it's clear I can only exist without suffering because I have created this niche I live in. I'd wither way in an ordinary work- or living environment.

The only issue I have is the BodyOS becoming too cocky. It used to be extremely cautious and now it's acting up, not knowing its place. I already said I lose out in conflict in almost all situations because it bothers me far more than an opponent. I am also required to adhere to law 100% and not raise any concern about my reliability if I want to keep my job, security clearance and firearm permit. So that needs to be addressed. Do more myself and keep the BodyOS on a shorter leash.

After giving it more thought it may fall into the category of intrusive thoughts somehow. I'll have Alice yell those down at the first signs.

Bear's intrusive thoughts, and by extension Ashley's, though I had a taste of them once or twice, all completely dissappeared along with compulsions and a lot of other issues after we were far enough along with shadow work. If it becomes more of an issue, then it's worth a try.

Yes, definitely. Will try that, it's my job after all.

what level and what gun did you use?
this shit is too much for me and I think its not a good sport if you have a military background. ipsc targets dont shoot back so throwing away all caiution when storming a shage is suicidal irl. but yeah i get the autopilot thing. same here if i have some exercise the body just does its thing not me or tupper. Yulya probably only returns when im delirious from exhaustion lol
Level II match. Already 2 spooky 4 me. There were these pros with custom T-shirts with their names on it and uber-tuned race guns. My AR-15 with the 1-8x scope isn't bad but not specifically made for IPSC. Heavy af. I was shaking after a while.

Fun thing - IPSC folks are either these slim ultra-athletes, or morbidly obese middle aged men. A fat neckbeard with glasses won 3rd place. He wasn't fast at running but damn accurate at shooting. I'm glad I wasn't last but scored very low. Made some dumb mistakes and overlooked a few targets. Well, the BodyOS did. But it was my mistake not to memorize the targets beforehand.

Apart from the ammo cost, the whole thing is a bit too serious for me.