Author Topic: Adventures in Psyche Schisms  (Read 11165 times)

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2015, 07:06:23 AM »
I think it's almost impossible for a tulpa to hate a host who spends all that effort creating them, nurturing and teaching them, and basically giving them all this loving care. Don't worry about it.

Eating and experiencing things together is always good. Your brain is better at simulating tastes and things than you would think, if you consider how vivid things can be in dreams. Even if you have trouble tasting anything when you imagine it, you can think that things are a lot more vivid for your tulpa, and they will be able to experience imagined things rather easily. That's how it is for my group, at least.

It's always fun to try new things with your tulpa, or have her try new things. Maybe take her back to a memory where you did something exciting, and experience it with her. Go back to memories of amazing food or heck, a fun theme park ride. There's a lot of possibilities.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2015, 07:16:51 AM »
Rodger that! Hrm, now to see if I even have good memories for her, haha. A pity she can't eat meat, takes away so much sensory possibility.

Also, a concern: I heard something about not doing the tupper thing before bed because dreams can mess with them; I kinda seem to be at a point where I can't turn her off (and don't want to); she was part of my (rather bizaare and unpleasant) dreams last night and it has me wondering if tbat could have a negative effect.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2015, 08:03:24 AM »
Well, right now your tupper doesn't really have anyone else except you. It could be easy for them to start liking someone who is abusive just because they don't know any better and any attention is better than none.

Luckily due to you two being closer than any other being in this world, you'll be able to understand each other like no one else. Even if you don't agree on things, you'll have a pretty good idea on the thoughts behind those opinions so you understand. Difficult to hate people you understand, even if they do things you dislike.

The dream thing is something that could happen to some, but seems to be a minority. You have to be reading very old things for that to be a thing, it was an idea around like pretty much 3 years ago. I'd say proven to be false considering that most people don't seem to have experienced it, your mindset probably affects this the most. Like if you expect it to do something bad, it will.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 08:05:11 AM by Sands »

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2015, 10:49:41 PM »
Didn't do any active forcing today but I've been talking to her since I woke up. Upset her greatly by having a very uneasy thought that the tulpa thing could be considered 'pathetic' (I don't personally believe that, but I do worry about what others might think, which spurred the thought). Took some pretty heartfelt apology to remedy that, but I did. Kind of a low point so far and one I'm not at all proud of. Otherwise things still going well.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 07:08:55 AM »
They're just jealous of your cute imaginary friend.

Dreams are just dreams, I don't think your tulpa will be heavily traumatized by them, or something. I never even heard of these potential problems before, and I don't think you should be concerned here, anyway. Hang out with her whenever you want, and don't be afraid of what seems to be a ghost story. No need to turn her off or attempt to do so. It's interesting to see how fast you are adapting to this thing, and how quickly she is becoming a constant in your life. Do keep us updated on anything interesting that happens.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 07:54:09 AM »
Funnily enough, I think I'd be more concerned about them knowing that I like what inspired her base form, more than the tulpa thing in general, hurrhurr.

Well, it's not incredibly smooth. Having a very hard time feeling her thia morning. Need to do some active forcing on break, I think. Most of this is still parroting anyway. I think.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 11:25:23 AM »
Trying to be a hair more healthily skeptical about things while maintaining constant puppetting/narration/etc today. Active forcing on lunch was rocky and full of distracting thoughts. Personality review and some visualization; will have to do another session or so later today.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2015, 09:34:18 AM »
I have cut parroting completely out of my routine, and very lottle is happening now. Continuing to do 15 min forcing/day. Suspect this inadequate. Read through that depressing/worrying log made by failed tupper-er Enny and gleaned as much help from it as possible. Lots of gems in there. Stealing the suggested schedule Sands gave to him for my own use, and will be doing what I can to implement it for my own use.

Considering doing a hybrid of Fede's method and more old-school tulpa techniques- switching off every day and such. I'm just alarmed by the philosophy behind the method there- I don't want a puppet in my brain, I can do that already with abject ease. I want something more, and I want to do all those fascinating things like switching and such as well. Would extensive puppeting and parroting help with this or am I gonna lobotomize her if I do things this way?

Not too much interesting to report. Narration has been semi-consistent and last forcing session was disappointingly unfruitful. Going to start doing an hour a day total now. Hopefully that will ease progress along.

also gosh golly goodness this place is so darn dead i cant even even

Re: Adventures in Occasional Uncommon Words Thesaurus Usage
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2015, 02:09:05 PM »
also gosh golly goodness this place is so darn dead i cant even even

I got nothing. You've become a narrator. You're one of them. So I'm afraid I can't help you.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2015, 02:57:21 PM »
Your tones look helpful and your method sounds helpful, but your philosophy worries me, and potential results, is all.Downloaded all that eyebo stuff, gonna try it with me second forcing session today.

First went pretty well. Visualizing, working on the adventurey part of the wonderland and all.

Re: Adventures in Synonyms
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2015, 04:53:01 PM »
Tones? What tones?

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2015, 05:04:17 PM »
Apparently I meant Eye-Bo. Damn, my eyes hurt after that. Certainly was unable to force through that level of sensory input, either. Ow.

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2015, 07:27:28 PM »
Two active forcing sessions done today. 30 minutes of visualization for the first, 5 minutes personality + 5 of cloudwatching + 26 of reading Game of Thrones to her for the second: 36 total. Feels good. Been 'feeding' her anything I've eaten today that isn't meat-based, trying yo narrate, etc. Plenty of work done today. Hoping it turns out to be productive.

Hey, Sands, Yogi, you two have tulpas, I want to ask- do you think it'd do me any good to throw away my parroting fears and try some of Fede's methods? Would I still be able to eventually switch/possess/etc? And what would a tulpa's opinion be on the whole deal?

Re: Adventures in Using Different Words
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2015, 07:37:30 AM »
Damn, my eyes hurt after that. Certainly was unable to force through that level of sensory input, either. Ow.

Turn down the screen brightness.

Hey, Sands, Yogi, you two have tulpas,

So do I.

I want to ask- do you think it'd do me any good to throw away my parroting fears and try some of Fede's methods? Would I still be able to eventually switch/possess/etc? And what would a tulpa's opinion be on the whole deal?

I don't think their advice on my advice would be of much use, as my opinions on imaginary friends conflict so much with theirs. Maybe the only good thing you'd get would be some kind of "Yeah, well, maybe-ish, perhaps the visualisation techniques, I dunno, you gotta listen to your Tupla, spend time with them all the time, be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, enjoy fun things together, just do it, I don't end my sentences, comma" answer.

My method is entirely based on autosuggestion and habit, and its main philosophy is that you're merely training your imagination, not creating a "separate consciousness". By default, people live their lives with their sense of self and their imagination separated. I'm an advocate of upholding that separation for the sake of practicality, rather than willingly creating the illusion of a "real person in the same head", "listening" for a response, and more-or-less believing that's what one is doing.

Once you imagine something and start to theorise that it's not imaginary, you delve into all kinds of possible explanations that might replace "imaginary friend", so that it feels more authentic, because imagination is by default unauthentic. The general consensus in this community is typically that if something is labelled part of one's imagination, it's just another random thing or character. Using the tupper term is the solution to this for many people. It makes their imaginary friends more authentic and "real".

And that's plain unnecessary. Why strive for that in the first place? Why not instead create a world wherein both you and whichever characters of your choice are equally physical? Why create this clumsy setup of "me and another personality in my head with control over one body" because a sect on the Internet frontloaded you into thinking that makes it more authentic and special? Why strive for authenticity in the first place? Why is it so dire and important?

It's perfectly possible to interact with imagination and treat whatever you create in it with respect. You don't have to narrate and "accept the poor little tupper as a real person" to create the same respect. You don't need to slog through all this dumb crap just to imagine a person into existence. The only reason the narrator mindset has prevailed over time is because it's the most popular one, which in turn is only because Dane and Irish largely went by that initially. All this about "what's a tupper, how do I create a tupper, what will happen if I do X to my tupper, I heard dreaming about your tupper is bad, I can't focus on my tupper, my tupper needs alone time what do I do, my tupper is angry because someone said she isn't real". It's quite rich.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 07:39:17 AM by Fede »

Re: Adventures in Psyche Schisms
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2015, 08:34:34 AM »
Can you use parroting to make a tupper? Sure. Can you use Fede's thing to make a tupper? Sure yeah, it looks like a valid method because honestly, anything is valid if you feel like it's working. All a mental thing, so you could probably make a tupper by doing anything if you were convinced you would get a tupper out of it.

Should you do it? Only you can tell. One thing I'll say is that how much you force per session isn't the limiting factor unless you find yourself finding it difficult to focus if you just do short sessions or something. The same goes for long sessions, what use is an hour long session if you only are focused for the first ten minutes or so? With short sessions, the advantage is that you can put it anywhere in your schedule and can't feel lazy. If you knew you had to get off the computer for an hour, you'll probably push that further and further away until the day is done. But if you have to do ten minutes now and ten, you'll find it much easier to just leave and go do it. Depends on what kind of a person you are and how long it takes you to get in the mood.

As for Fede's beliefs, the main thing that differs is that his definition of a tulpa is much wider than ours. He says tulpa, he means pretty much anything in your imagination no matter how separate or independent it seems. We say tulpa and we mean a thing that should feel like another person and definitely has fooled us into thinking that they really are. Despite what he says, he doesn't really seem to think that what we want out of a tulpa is impossible. Some tuppers he likes more than the host and seems to wish that they take over so the host wouldn't spend as much time in the real world, so that seems to imply to me that the tupper in question is given some kind of personhood in his eyes, as they could replace the host person. Similarly when it comes to some tuppers, they can have pretty normal conversations without Fede going on about his belief things. Many of the newer tuppers tend to get to taste his opinions, though.

And can't forget how his own tupper back in the day would do a lot of stuff on her own even if it was something Fede didn't like, like creating a wonderland when he was very against that kind of stuff and only finding out about it later. So there's some irony about the guy with the very separate-feeling tupper saying these things.