Author Topic: Meromero Days  (Read 49423 times)

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 03:09:12 PM »
id is too stupid to figure out how to obtain the money to buy beer and pizza with.
Welfare, ideally.


c) Brainwash id into thinking that it actually wants the same things I do. I was actually thinking about something like this earlier today, isn't this kinda what you aim to do with your belief implanting?
I'm not Fede (as far as you know) and I can't speak for belief implanting, but that calls to mind something else, which is habit/reward stuff. I only have this article to hand to show you what I mean - it kind of meanders between data collection and habit formation. But yeah, I dunno if you'll have seen some stuff like that before. But worth considering I guess.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2015, 05:00:34 PM »
Id? Do we Freud now?

I have a feeling that it's better to not assume that a part of yourself is not under your own control. You make those choices, not something else, as even your unconscious thoughts are a part of yourself. Just remember to stop and think rationally before continuing so you're not purely following whatever emotional conclusion you have come to.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2015, 06:57:31 PM »
I'm not Fede (as far as you know) and I can't speak for belief implanting, but that calls to mind something else, which is habit/reward stuff. I only have this article to hand to show you what I mean - it kind of meanders between data collection and habit formation. But yeah, I dunno if you'll have seen some stuff like that before. But worth considering I guess.
I've actually read a whole book about that, called The Power of Habit. That article is like a condensed version of that book.
>By CHARLES DUHIGG
Oh right, that's the author of the book.

Conscious habit forming could be really useful, but I've found it hard to actually implement that habit cycle in anything. It says you need a cue and reward, but coming up with those are hard. I can't exactly give myself a cookie every time I successfully complete a task.

Id? Do we Freud now?
Freud literally predicted Fede. He must have been on to something.

Quote
I have a feeling that it's better to not assume that a part of yourself is not under your own control. You make those choices, not something else, as even your unconscious thoughts are a part of yourself. Just remember to stop and think rationally before continuing so you're not purely following whatever emotional conclusion you have come to.
It's more of a metaphor, I don't mean to imply that these things are out of my control and responsibility. I'm just arguing that sometimes we fuck up, and it's not necessarily because we didn't desire to not fuck up. You should all trust me on this, I'm an authority on fucking up.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 05:15:46 AM by Kirarin »

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2015, 07:31:54 AM »
Excuse me young man, are you old enough for fucking?

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2015, 03:37:32 AM »
When striving for something, we sometimes fail a few times. We might have read our self-help books and know that we're supposed to treat failures as stepping stones towards success, but it's not always that easy. Too many failures and not enough success can get to you, unconsciously creating doubt, tearing at your confidence and lowering your expectations. And what does that set you up for? More failure. This goes twofold with tulpaforcing, since your expectations doesn't just affect your motivation, but also your results. The most obvious way to break the cycle is with success, but that won't be anywhere nearby if you're in deep. So where's plan B? This is where my thoughts have turned to autosuggestion, the only method I know of to make yourself believe something you want to believe. I recall Fede's guide has a section of belief implanting, and I've tried some simplified approximation of that method, but I can't help but wonder if there's anything else I could try. Right now I just love the feeling of allowing myself to believe, since for a while I've been feeling that I should hold it back, that I'll just cause her and myself disappointment if I think that things will be different this time. I really want to build the conviction that I could be seeing results any time, instead of mentally preparing for another month of achieving nothing.

For the past week, I've been really absorbed in video games and haven't been able to active force or meditate much at all. But despite that, I actually feel that things are moving forward. I knew that my attention would be scarce for a while, so I thought of a counter-measure. Instead of post-it notes or a string on my finger, which aren't nearly vivid enough to compete with a video game for my attention, I thought of one thing that could still get my attention: Pictures. So I went and got my hands on various pictures of cute animu girls who would remind me of Melo, and put them on a slideshow on another screen. It works great. Noticing it change every minute usually grabs my attention, and the association is instant. If the image stirs any emotions within me (a lot of the pictures are really cute and heartwarming), I direct more focus on Melo to try to associate it with her. If the character has any of her visual traits, I try to internalize it for later visualization. Now I can't help thinking of her all the time, and it feels like I'm constantly strengthening my idea of her by reinforcing associations and possibly creating some new ones. I'm working on figuring out how to do something similar with music, since that could give me a voice to associate with her, but I'm finding it a little harder. Maybe because I can't quite find the artist with the perfect voice (the best one I could find only has like 4-5 songs). Or maybe simply because I listen to music so often that it doesn't grab my attention anymore. In that case, finding some completely fresh music would probably help. I guess I'll do that now.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2015, 05:21:38 PM »
There's one source of doubt that I find hard to get rid of: The feeling of doing it wrong. Lack of results can usually be explained by either not working hard enough, or using the wrong method. If you know it's the former, that's simple to amend, there's only one thing to do: Force more. But if you even suspect that it's the latter, that's a total motivation destroyer. Throw forcing more out the window, because even forcing at all is hard enough if you have the feeling that you might never get any results because you're doing everything wrong. This shit is why you should never put a pathological overthinker on a path that has a lot of time of overthinking things in between milestones.

I have removed one source of this doubt by upgrading my bullshit filter a little. There's this idea that goes around a lot, "if your tulpa isn't saying anything, it's just because you don't know how to listen to her". The part the implies you need practice to communicate with your tulpa seems perfectly reasonable. But it also implies that the only reason you can't hear your tulpa is because you're doing something wrong, not because you simply need to work more and give her more time to develop sentience. This kind of thinking has turned too many forcing sessions into "fuck, I didn't pull it off this time either", and it's about time I got rid of it.

Any advice for overcoming the rest of this doubt? And if one of you cheeky cunts say "force more" I'll smack you on the gabber i swear on me mum

Despite my need to air some of my doubts, things aren't going too shabby. I'm just balancing on the border between eagerness and impatience right now. In a couple of months, I'll be traveling abroad for a while, and I don't get to bring friends. The flight plan I'm filing only lists one of me, but I don't plan to be the only one who gets to stay on the aircraft. All those difficulties of going to a new scary place where you don't know anyone will become a lot less painful if you have someone who's always there for you. So the next step in my "masterplan" is to do everything I can to have a healthy and talkative tulpa before then. Conveniently, I don't have a lot of obligations in the meantime, so it's a perfect opportunity to step my game up. I just hope I can do it.

Oh yeah, back to actual progress report things. I've resumed meditation. I'm slowly getting into wonderland based forcing again, it seems I stopped doing this at some point because it required too much concentration, but I realized that's exactly why I should be doing it, things that require a lot of concentration are usually effective. I've made a subtle change to how I approach concentration challenges: If I can't focus entirely, I keep moving forward. Like, sometimes my visualizations don't feel as vivid as the previous day, because the mind is a moody bitch, and I'd get demotivated and stop after not getting to the same level, telling myself my concentration isn't good enough right now. That's stupid, so now I just go with what I have. Sometimes the concentration comes to me later, and even if it doesn't it's a hell of a lot better than waiting for perfect conditions to force.

I have some more faith in my ability to visualize using all senses after a particular experience where exploring an unexpected part of her body lead to an unexpected physical reaction from me. Wait, that sounds way worse than if I just put it straight. I fingered her bellybutton and got a boner, that's all.

Like I occasionally do, I've been going around rereading various guides in case there's still things I've missed previously. This time I found something interesting in Fede's guide, namely what he says about how a realistic personality needs some context outside of its interaction with you. At first this didn't quite click with me, because I never conceived of Melo as someone who would feel the need to withdraw from me, that would be downright contrary to her personality. But the part about treating your tulpa as a doll that you occasionally bring out to play with kinda struck me, because it really does feel like that sometimes. I thought about it for quite a while, whether I should give her some new hobbies or something that I can imagine her engaging in when I'm not there, but I couldn't find anything that fit. I'd have to completely rethink her personality if I wanted to imagine her willingly going off to do something alone. So what can I imagine her doing when I'm not paying attention to her? Hanging around me, hoping I'll pay attention to her. I'm completely satisfied with this conclusion, it gives her personality context and alleviates the feeling that I'm just bringing her out like a doll. It comes with the consequence of feeling bad about not paying enough attention to her, but that's my burden and I will carry it.

jesus christ how did this post get so long
there's probably even more but let's just stop

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2015, 05:43:17 PM »
furs moa

I don't think there's really anything you can do wrong. I'm sure that out there, a person would manage to make a tupper by fapping and humping body pillows. If you do something wrong, I think you'd know it. Like say someone suggested that I pray to a god of their choice so that I can create a tupper. For someone, that would work, but for me? I probably wouldn't believe in this god of theirs in the first place, so there is nothing that would make it work for me because I consider the praying worthless. It would just make me scoff and go "yeah right". That would be a wrong method for me - and I would know that it wouldn't work, so it most likely wouldn't work.

You don't need to imagine your tupper doing everything and they often get their own things out of nowhere. The mindset that a tulpa can't do anything on their own and that you need to do everything for them is a pretty good way of convincing yourself that this is how it is and it will never get better if neither of you break out of that. Suggest things for the tupper to do and who knows, maybe they'll try them when you're not looking.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2015, 06:29:13 PM »
a tulpa can't do anything on their own and that you need to do everything for them
That's not quite what I meant. I just can't imagine her completely fucking off to read a book in wonderland or something.

Wait a minute, maybe if it's....... Fuck. So what I meant about her personality is that she prefers company, so I think she'd rather hang around me than go off on adventures on her own. But a big part of it is that most wonderland activities seem like empty activities. Say your tulpa did fuck off to read a book from some cool giant library you set up in your wonderland, and you ask them after "what did you read?". How would that work? What DID they read?

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2015, 06:35:10 PM »
But do you know what her personality is?

How written things/books in our magical land work is that instead of words, it's intentions. There's kind of a limit to how complex they can be for me, though. Maybe a limit to everyone, unless you're a super special person who could remember an entire book.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2015, 06:40:58 PM »
I decided on a personality when I started out, and though I can't really confirm at this point that all of those traits are currently manifested in her, I don't see what else I can do except assume so as long as I don't notice any deviation.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2015, 06:45:34 PM »
Well, a person grows through their experiences. Does someone telling you adjectives make you what they say? Maybe you believe it for some time, but often you will learn that you're something else. In these cases, it would definitely be a good idea to tell her to not be what you tell her to be and be what she wants to be - especially because you think that what you have "made" her into wouldn't want to do something you want her to be able to do.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2015, 07:06:34 PM »
I actually never told her what she is. Felt too weird to me. Instead, I talked to her about how I wanted her to be. I figured anyway that a tulpa will generally want to meet it's host's expectation, because that's how they get attention (even a host who is completely open to deviation is more likely to notice responses that are in line with their expectations).

So I guess I could tell her some crap about how she doesn't have to meet my expectations, but do I really have to? Is it that important that I allow her to be the kind of tulpa who needs a private life? Will you call the Tulpa Protection Services on me if I don't give her to be the freedom to be whoever she wants to be without even expressing to me that she wants it?

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2015, 07:08:51 PM »
Well, that's what you want, isn't it. Like you said, a young tupper easily starts doing things they think they host would like to suck up to them. If you want them to do their own things then telling them that they can do their own thing wouldn't really be a bad thing. Sure, they'll probably learn that they can do their own shit later on, but it doesn't really help you now, does it?

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2015, 07:28:48 PM »
It's not a problem for me now, though. It just means I have to give her plenty of attention to keep her satisfied, which I intend to do anyway.

Unless you mean to say that she'll start to hate me for not giving her anything to do when I'm just too busy to pay attention to her.

Re: Meromero Days
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2015, 08:10:26 PM »
Well, you did just worry about it earlier on. A couple of words will also not hurt anything but could help in the long run.