Author Topic: Relationships and Behavior  (Read 10102 times)

Relationships and Behavior
« on: January 08, 2014, 12:50:44 AM »
Sands edit: This topic was split from this thread as it didn't really fit in the diary section anymore. You're still more than welcome to continue the thread and it might very well teach something valuable to both parties. I hope I got all the posts that should be here.


Quote from: A snippet that you edited out.
Actually kinda find it funny that you seem to think so negatively of me wanting companionship from another person, even if it is a silly crush, but whatever. Kinda heard what I needed to hear now, so I can stop taking anything you say about non Tulpa related anything seriously. Or even regarding it, now.
Why do you find that funny? The reason I think "negatively" of this case is because your grounds for "liking her and only her" are rather flat and based on very little. Then again, I have a hard time taking any sort of "wishful girlfriend thoughts" seriously unless the wishful lad in question has been very close friends with the girl in question for a long time. As for selectively not taking what I say seriously, that's up to you. If you want to be oblivious, then so be it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 09:04:55 AM by Sands »

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 01:12:27 AM »
Did edit it out, cause idunno, felt kinda silly to say. It's not my situation necessarily, it's the way you worded that last post. Imean, if you didn't strike me as one before, you kinda seemed.. Idunno what the word is, really off for that last one. Seems like you just generally dislike that kinda relationship, and in discouraging it, in favor of Tulpa relationship, which is cool and all, still love, you really kinda came off as a.. What's the word, Neckbeard doesn't feel right, but a friend who I've been trying to get in around here said something along the lines of, or more so in quoting, "like... is he actively discouraging meeting other people? I don't understand..."

That just killed me. It seems like you're about as antisocial as it gets, whether you're trying to come across that way or not. So yeah, Idunno, I've been asking people in happy relationships for advice a bit of today, and they seem to be a lot better at giving it than you, currently deemed level two Neckbeard, says I. Course, this just pertains to anything regarding being social, or doing things in the real world, I'm still happy to take suggestions elsewhere.

EDIT: And god damn it, okay, I kinda just wanna know what's wrong with liking some gal I've only seen seven or eight times, talked to once or twice. Not much, but for the third fukn time, gotta start somewhere, right? I don't know specifically what it is about her, but I do like her a good bit, yeah. And what the hell was that about the club, a couple posts back? Common ground? I know damn well our taste in games is similar, and that at least is something. Not sure why a club seems more viable to you. It kinda seems like, after thinking back on that, you're kinda just adamant on emphasizing how stupid this is, on my part. It's silly, but I don't think a crush is really stupid, by any means. GameStop might not be ideal, but hey, she's there, I can ask what she recommends, and I can certainly carry a conversation once me and whoever else are on the same page. Hell, yeah, it's her job to talk about them, but I doubt it can be awful, considering how she doesn't seem so broken as a lot of employees are, in various stores, and manages to ask if she can help like, three times per visit. As stated somewhere back there, a first name basis would be great. Definitely a start. I'm kinda starting to think it's you who doesn't really get how becoming friends with someone works. Ya talk. Then you got a name. Then you talk more. Gets more comfortable. Friends.

If I even wanna try risking that by asking her out or something after that point, then I will, but If I feel like I shouldn't, or should wait, or whatever, I won't.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 08:25:16 AM by Enny »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 01:53:41 AM »
Alright but really? Fede Do you really consider yourself so far above this kid? You are so goddamn condescending, I think I may become physically ill!
When Miriam one day is developed enough to be a satisfactory friend in all departments you feel empty in, maybe you'll think differently about friends in general, like me. Such is my hope either way, so that you may finally put an end to this desperate craving and start enjoying life with one that truly understands you like no one else ever would be able to.
As for selectively not taking what I say seriously, that's up to you. If you want to be oblivious, then so be it.
You clearly can't even begin to try to see the world through any scope but you own! You just hold up your situation as the pinnacle of of perfection, using the fact that other people aren't exactly like you as a reason to insult them.

To be completely honest, your situation sounds really terrible; you rely solely on your tulpa for companionship and let that stop you from forming any other relationships. Don't get me wrong, the idea of a tulpa drew me in for similar reasons as you listed, something to talk to that will really get what you are saying, better than probably anyone else can, but by no means would I consider that to be the only interaction I want in life. As someone who, apparently unlike you, actually had a few relationships, I can legitimately say that the whole feel is different from having a tulpa. Not inferior, not superior, just flat out different. It is completely reasonable to want both a tulpa and some relations with other people!

As for his reasons for liking this girl, sure, they are a bit shallow and childish, but why is that so infuriating to you? He has even acknowledged that they are not the best reasons, but well damn, I guess that's just not enough, you need to consistently criticize him about for no reason. I mean come on! By now, any lesson that he might have learned from your scolding is old and repeated, and that just makes him all the more likely to ignore it. Quite honestly, the reasons aren't terrible. She is pretty, that's a plus, she shares some interests in games (a point you very cleverly decide to never mention), that's a plus, she seems friendlier than other people, that's yet another plus. Plus plus plus, sure they don't say much about her actual character but people don't just display that for the public to see. That's the whole point of getting to know someone, its figuring out whether you actually like them (in a platonic or romantic way). So say this person turns out to be a neo nazi who kicks puppies and likes to catch and fry up endangered species for fun; "Well, guess THAT was a mistake, outward appearances sure can be decieving. Oh well, better luck next time,". Simple as that! He's not trying to make some life-long connection with ONLY THIS ONE GIRL FOR EVER AND EVER AND NOBODY ELSE CAN EVER DO, he is just interested in someone he met in a store! Hell, from what I can tell he would be okay if this doesn't get much past friendship, he just feels like she would be a nice friend. Just for gods' sakes, let him have his "wishful girlfriend thoughts" if he wants to, he never asked for your help.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 02:24:58 AM by Septimus »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 12:27:00 PM »
I seem to possess the innate skill to rustle jimmies, coming off as a guy with a superiority complex to many, seeing others as being below him, shoving what he believes down others' throats as being the only right way. I believe Septimus and Enny both need to learn about the concept of self-possession, for I find they're very easily offended by my words.

Septimus, you seem to criticise my way of showing my opinion. Yet, you make many conclusive assumptions about me, maybe because of my pessimistic nature, but I find it fallacious of you. How ironic, considering this whole talk about judging peoples' character. I've been very careful to use wording like "it seems" and "I think" in my posts to emphasise that I'm not stating facts like they're set in stone, but instead are mere opinions. I shall nonetheless defend myself from your claims.

I don't consider myself "above this kid". The very term "considering oneself above someone else" is subjective as well; one can feel "above" someone else in a specific area and not so much in others. I'm not condescending; that's your opinion. Your claim that I "can't try to see the world through another's scope" is also but a mere opinion. So is your claim that I "just hold up my situation as the pinnacle of perfection". So is also your claim that I "rely solely on my tupper for companionship and let that stop me from forming any other relationships". It is indeed reasonable to want both a tupper and other relations with people at the same time; I agree. It is not "infuriating to me" that his reasons for liking this girl are what you claim to be "a bit shallow and childish"; simply, I think they're too full of hope that's based on relatively little. He can get to know her, yes, but that seems to be more of a devoted effort rather than a friendship that sprung from what I would mostly deem a "natural process"; as in, gradually getting to know someone "just like that" without having planned something from the start like "Yush, I'm gonna do my earnest to be friends with this dude/chick." Whether or not my words are seen as advice or criticism is subjective. Your claim that I'm "scolding" is only an opinion. I never specificallyam letting him have what I'd view as being wishful thoughts; I'm just stating my opinions. Your claim that my words are "help" is but an opinion of yours.

Moving on to Enny, perhaps slightly less, but not by a too large margin, upset over my posting here.

Contrary to what it seems to you, I don't "generally dislike that kind of relationship" or am "discouraging it, in favor of a tupper relationship"; I'd prefer you acquire a friendship with a female gradually through common interests, slowly building up trust, but that's just me. I'm not "actively discouraging meeting other people", at least in general terms; I think it's very individualistic and should not be generalised. I don't think there's anything wrong with liking a girl; I like many girls myself. The club was only an example. I didn't say it was a "more viable" approach; many approaches could work. I'm not "adamant on emphasising how stupid this is on your part", as I never called it stupid; I'm just stating my opinion on how I think it's what one in laymen's terms perhaps would call a "long shot", and about how I find you to have excessive wishful thoughts on this matter. How becoming friends with someone "works" is subjective and varies from person to person, even if only a little bit.

We're not married. Because you're too young.

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 01:40:30 PM »
I'd kinda consider what I'm trying to do as gradual as I can get it without taking years. There's this guy that works at an FYE, I kinda know. Some friends and I walk through, checking out the anime stuff, and looking over pony merch every week or two. Last thing I remember, he said something along "Hey guys, we've got some new pony stuff in the back.", and he asked about some of the interest, and he's a lot more friendly than he used to be. Still don't have his name, cause I'm just awful at checking, but he's gone from "can I help you?" To "oh, hey you guys, doing good?" Over a gradual course, no real effort put into it.

I do like the girl. As far as appearance, and the way she handles herself in a social environment goes, I like her a lot. Just taking it easy, and talking a bit next time I go, and the time after that.. I kinda think that's a reasonable kinda gradual, but the whole "Subjectivity" thing applies there, I guess.

I'm not trying to take you hostilely, but you're really good at unintentionally seeming condescending, and rude I guess. Just seems like you're saying any manner of getting to know a girl I like less than knowing her for a long-ass time, building up conversation bit by bit, is unreasonable, or at least, wishful thinking. Hoping anyone will respond positively to you, is in itself, wishful thinking. Just feels like a really negative thing, the way I'm interpreting it here.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 01:44:19 PM by Enny »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 01:59:13 PM »
Hey, we're all different. Some people take my words as insults and my attempts to share my opinions immediately backfire as claims and assumptions are barked back at me, while some other people do respect my opinions for simply being opinions and then move on without refuting my words in a "Fine, I don't care." way, but at the same time, don't needlessly take offence.

I don't believe it's about me "unintentionally" seeming condescending. All my words are intentional, I assure you. I've talked to other people with very similar phrasing who were mature enough to take in words without feeling attacked, so really, I'd say it's a subjective thing. And you're you.

I shall have you know this is mostly how I achieved my ever-so-infamous status across the community; by incessantly shoving my method and accessories so I could test people and see whom were mature enough to resist it calmly. Although, I'm going a bit easier on it these days, but still.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 02:04:41 PM by Fede »

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »
By unintentional, I mean seeming like a dick, when you're not inherently trying to seem like aforementioned dick. And know-it-all-ish. But hell, if that's what your going for..

Opinions opinions, though. 'F I can figure out how to get to know this gal before I approach her trying to get to know her, I'll be sure and give you some money, or something, though.

Now for all fuck's sake, Septimus was right about one thing for certain; didn't ask for advice. Was just trying to fill in my mentioning of Tupper speak as much as I possibly could, just telling one of the least important things we'd discussed that night. So let's shut up, and let me focus on figuring out what I'm gonna do - aside from Fede's pink noise junk.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:04:36 PM by Enny »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 08:43:39 PM »
By unintentional, I mean seeming like a dick, when you're not inherently trying to seem like aforementioned dick. And know-it-all-ish. But hell, if that's what your going for..
Your claim that I'm going for being a dick is an opinion, as I never stated at any point that I'm in this thread or anywhere else going for being a dick. Shoving my method and accessories is done out of good heart, but I'm already past the "first-hand recommendation phase" in this thread. You seem to know enough about my method and Eye-Bo, so I probably need not to inform you of it anymore.

Now for all fuck's sake, Septimus was right about one thing for certain; didn't ask for advice.
In case you missed it from my tl;dr post:
Whether or not my words are seen as advice or criticism is subjective. [...] Your claim that my words are "help" is but an opinion of yours.
So, I'm not giving advice, or help. That's just a subjective observation of my words; an opinion. :V

Also, now my pink noise is suddenly junk? Such bias.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 08:52:13 PM by Fede »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 01:33:49 AM »
Sorry, the palpable condescension and self glorification was a bit hard to slog through, my reply is thusly delayed.
 
I seem to possess the innate skill to rustle jimmies, coming off as a guy with a superiority complex to many, seeing others as being below him, shoving what he believes down others' throats as being the only right way. I believe Septimus and Enny both need to learn about the concept of self-possession, for I find they're very easily offended by my words.
Guys, don't worry, he's not condescending, we are just too inferior to understand him properly, we just need to be more like him.

I'm just stating my opinion on how I think it's what one in laymen's terms perhaps would call a "long shot", and about how I find you to have excessive wishful thoughts on this matter.
Oh, wow, he's so nice, he's simplifying down his great intelligence into "layman's terms" so that we inferiors can understand him!
No but seriously, layman's terms? Alright... so then how does one say "a long shot" in non-layman's terms? And what terms might these even be? So far as I can tell you are not referencing any particularly technical or complicated idea. Phrases like "a long shot" are colloquialisms, idioms. They are not dumbed down versions of more complicated or heavily technical ideas.

I don't believe it's about me "unintentionally" seeming condescending. All my words are intentional, I assure you. I've talked to other people with very similar phrasing who were mature enough to take in words without feeling attacked, so really, I'd say it's a subjective thing. And you're you.
...B-But you realize that, in that very sentence, you are being  condescending, right? By saying that other people are mature enough to deal with you, you are implying that whoever you are talking to is not, and because maturity is generally seen as a good thing to have, you are implying that the reader is not as good as other people, of whom you are implied to be one, as the measure for others' maturity is their level of tolerance for you. Which, by the way, is a hilariously self-absorbed and self-glorifying way to judge people.

But it's ok for you, because this is "but another opinion of mine" (which you are allowed to dismiss? even though we are judged by how well we accept your own opinions... hold on, need some more water to swallow the egocentricity), right? No, actually, it is an interpretation of your words that is well founded in reason and knowledge of the English language, but after reading your responses it seems as though you don't really get the function of opinions anyways.
Your claim that I'm going for being a dick is an opinion, as I never stated at any point that I'm in this thread or anywhere else going for being a dick. Shoving my method and accessories is done out of good heart, but I'm already past the "first-hand recommendation phase" in this thread."
Actually, his claim that you are going for being a dick is just that, a claim. And, in my opinion, it is a rather solid claim, based off what you have already said. I might as well accept this claim too, since you never denied it, you just fallaciously said that his claim is not valid because you had not previously confirmed it, which, unlike what you seem to believe, you are not required to do for the claim to be valid. Also goddamnit, if there is any product you should be pushing it is a pain reliever for the headaches that your superiority complex must give people, I mean, "done out of good heart", isn't that a bit over the top, even for you? Or do you honestly believe that everyone would be that much better off to have something you made that it would just make you a bad person for not sharing your glory?

All this said, the thing that quite possibly bugged me the most about your responses was your apparent assertion of the superiority of "natural" relationships.
He can get to know her, yes, but that seems to be more of a devoted effort rather than a friendship that sprung from what I would mostly deem a "natural process"; as in, gradually getting to know someone "just like that" without having planned something from the start like "Yush, I'm gonna do my earnest to be friends with this dude/chick."
You know what? Relationships like these suck, more often than not. They may seem nice at first, but that's all they ever really are. They are just seemingly a relationship.
I once had a romantic relationship like this myself, actually. Due to odd circumstance, a stranger and I ended up in one place together for awhile, with each other as the only consistent other people there. So, we talked, a little. Small talk, talk about our life stories, talk about the other people coming through this place. After awhile, we got used to talking to each other, so even when we were no longer bound by circumstance to this place, we went to there often to talk to each other. the friendship continued like this, we just slowly became more used to one another being around, and finally when it came to the point of dependance of one another's presence, we decided to call it romantic. Of course, being called romantic the language and actions changed to be more romantic, but still, we didn't actually know all that much about each other.In the end, we both looked back on the relationship and realized that actually, we didn't like each other at all, we had just become used to each other being there, despite not really knowing who the other person was.

So what's the point of all that? The point is, there is nothing inherently special about a relationship growing "naturally", in fact usually relationships like that turn out to be founded on nothing. It is probably much more healthy for a relationship to be actively seeking the other person out, because it means a few things. Like, that you are willing to put in effort to be near this person, or that they are not just some random stranger that you don't mind being around, but someone who seems to you to be very distinctly likeable. Heck, a tulpa represents this in probably the best way possible, you actively seek out its creation and work hard to create it, and you seem to have a pretty high opinion of tulpa relationships.


I shall have you know this is mostly how I achieved my ever-so-infamous status across the community; by incessantly shoving my method and accessories so I could test people and see whom were mature enough to resist it calmly. Although, I'm going a bit easier on it these days, but still.
... Alright but did you actually just pat yourself on the back for being an asshole? Did you really just excuse your obnoxious behavior as a test to see what people you could deem mature enough? Did you continue to actually seem regretful for being less of an obnoxious ass? I'm not sure why I bother...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 01:44:44 AM by Septimus »

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2014, 01:55:59 AM »
Okay, okay, lemme rephrase the whole advice thing: Fede, you fucking dickcocker, your opinion sucks, don't give it to me unless we're dealing specifically with Tuppers. You seem to know as much as I do, granted through a warped and pessimistic set of eyes, about speaking to women, and people in general. You're an arse, subjectivity or no. If I were rude to people, claiming that my actions, and the way they were interperated therein, was partially on the account, and fault of everyone else's mindset, I might just be looking for justification, and a way to feel like I didn't need to get a kick in the teeth for being an arse. After all, their fault they took me being rude negatively, right? Not a natural reaction in the slightest, the simpletons.. Shame on them for not being as mentally evolved as I, and far too sensitive.

PS: lelel if u taek ofens 2 mi thots on u ur falt 4 beeng liek dat not mine 4 bein r00d 2 start wif (generalizing here, I'm not calling you rude necessarily, though that's how you come accross, my opinion and subjectivity considered, just stating how it seems to a metaphorical T)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 02:00:03 AM by Enny »

MegaBusta

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2014, 03:46:55 AM »
I'm not sure why I bother...

Stop while you're behind.

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2014, 08:50:11 AM »
Still many rustled jimmies. Still many opinionated claims. It's unfortunate this thread is turning into another one of those "I love/hate Fede." threads. Like we've never had those before on .info, right guys?

Sorry for ruining the thread, Colonel. If you wanna move the posts, make sure to name the thread "another Fede love/hate thread" or something like that.

I'll try to break up the individual claims about me this time.

Fede, you fucking dickcocker, your opinion sucks, don't give it to me unless we're dealing specifically with Tuppers.
You never told me to not give my opinion about the whole "pretty girl" business until now. If you'd told me earlier in this thread, I would've accepted you don't want my opinion and I would've just stopped talking about it. Since you didn't tell me to stop, I didn't hesitate to explain myself further in my posts about my view on your thoughts regarding your crush.

You're an arse, subjectivity or no.
That's an opinion.

If I were rude to people, claiming that my actions, and the way they were interperated therein, was partially on the account, and fault of everyone else's mindset, I might just be looking for justification, and a way to feel like I didn't need to get a kick in the teeth for being an arse. After all, their fault they took me being rude negatively, right? Not a natural reaction in the slightest, the simpletons.. Shame on them for not being as mentally evolved as I, and far too sensitive.
Even though you seem to be making a sarcastic statement about it, you're almost correct, save for the "I might just be looking for justification, and a way to feel like I didn't need to get a kick in the teeth for being an arse." part. You can let yourself be impulsively driven by your emotions when you respond, or, you can control yourself and realise that opinions are opinions. What's "natural", I shall not be one to say; I don't believe in the concept of "nature". Things just happen for whatever reasons, or so I see it. As such, how "natural" a reponse to "observed rudeness" is in a person is entirely subjective. That's obvious, yes, but I'm just saying that I wouldn't generalise the response to something "negative", based on the concept of "nature", as being something caused by said "nature" of humans. We're all different, raised differently, under different circumstances. Ah, I shouldn't get too off-topic on this one. Moving on.

if u taek ofens 2 mi thots on u ur falt 4 beeng liek dat not mine 4 bein r00d 2 start wif (generalizing here, I'm not calling you rude necessarily, though that's how you come accross, my opinion and subjectivity considered, just stating how it seems to a metaphorical T)
Sure thing, but I agree with the text I would deem less-than-excellently typed, more or less, although it comes down to whom you'd want to "blame". That's another concept I'm having trouble accepting, since I believe things are always caused by a multitude of factors, rendering "blame" primitive in my eyes; as such, if I were to somehow take offence at your opinions, the reasons for my emotional stir would, among many factors, partially be because of me, partially be because of you, and various other things probably too numerous to mention.

Guys, don't worry, he's not condescending, we are just too inferior to understand him properly, we just need to be more like him.
That's a subjective observation, and I'm not sure if there's much I can do to make you think otherwise, so if such is how you wish to see me, then so be it.

Oh, wow, he's so nice, he's simplifying down his great intelligence into "layman's terms" so that we inferiors can understand him!
No but seriously, layman's terms? Alright... so then how does one say "a long shot" in non-layman's terms? And what terms might these even be?
My use of "a long shot" was merely a synonym, as I felt I had repeated my explanations of Enny's hopes, assumptions, and wishful thoughts about his crush from my previous posts one too many times. So I felt like wording myself differently, to keep the content fresh, ya see. As for what "a long shot" entails, well, I more or less just said it: a wishful endeavour with various hopes and assumptions about said endeavour and its outcome.

...B-But you realize that, in that very sentence, you are being  condescending, right? By saying that other people are mature enough to deal with you, you are implying that whoever you are talking to is not, and because maturity is generally seen as a good thing to have, you are implying that the reader is not as good as other people, of whom you are implied to be one, as the measure for others' maturity is their level of tolerance for you. Which, by the way, is a hilariously self-absorbed and self-glorifying way to judge people.
Maturity can mean many things. The way I used it, by my own intention, was in the way that it's used as a measurement scale; there can be varying levels of maturity, it can apply to different areas, and "maturity" itself is subjective. In this case, I was referring to the other people, meaning they're just a subgroup of people as opposed to "anyone else", as being mature enough in the department of emotion to be self-possessed enough to not take copious amounts of offence at mere opinions. I explained it to Enny a bit above in this post. If you see that as "self-absorbed and self-glorifying", then so be it, for I don't see it that way.

But it's ok for you, because this is "but another opinion of mine" (which you are allowed to dismiss? even though we are judged by how well we accept your own opinions... hold on, need some more water to swallow the egocentricity), right?
It is indeed another opinion of yours. I fail to see why I shouldn't be allowed to dismiss things as needed, so dismiss I shall, at least when I want to. In the same way, I have plenty of opinions that you may also dismiss, should you want to. Whether or not you're being judged by "how well you accept my own opinions" is subjective, as it differs between people on how this conversation is seen and how the responses are taken. In the same way, I could say that I'm "being judged by how well I accept your opinions", even though I'd just be one dude claiming that.

No, actually, it is an interpretation of your words that is well founded in reason and knowledge of the English language, but after reading your responses it seems as though you don't really get the function of opinions anyways.
But then you may be forgetting that the claim that I'm condescending is nonetheless still an opinion, however. For example, I can also seem overly generous and non-condescending from another person's point of view, simply because it was another person to make the assessment. Like I said, subjectivity. I believe we both have a good enough grasp of the function of opinions.

Actually, his claim that you are going for being a dick is just that, a claim. And, in my opinion, it is a rather solid claim, based off what you have already said. I might as well accept this claim too, since you never denied it, you just fallaciously said that his claim is not valid because you had not previously confirmed it, which, unlike what you seem to believe, you are not required to do for the claim to be valid.
Strong subjectivity here. Contrary to what you seem to believe, I don't necessarily think a claim about someone is true (or "valid") regardless of whether or not the person being made claims about is there to confirm it. A mass opinion doesn't necessarily make something true. An opinion about someone is difficult to call "true" to begin with. If I called you boring, what scientific research could I possibly have to back such a "claim" up? A claim which is, as far as I can tell, just an opinion, which is obviously subjective?

Also goddamnit, if there is any product you should be pushing it is a pain reliever for the headaches that your superiority complex must give people, I mean, "done out of good heart", isn't that a bit over the top, even for you? Or do you honestly believe that everyone would be that much better off to have something you made that it would just make you a bad person for not sharing your glory?
If you want to relieve headaches, you should try Eye-Bo, the ocular fitness program. You can find it here. I don't think "done out of good heart" is over the top for me. I don't "honestly believe" (weird for me to use the word "honest", as I'm being honest in my post by default) that "everyone" (which I think is rather general) would benefit from my various supplements. Whenever I think someone (and not "everyone") might benefit from at least trying something like Eye-Bo or my method, I let them know. I don't think it has anything to do with me trying to make myself feel "less bad", as I don't do it for something like furthering my "self-glory", but if you see it that way, then so be it.

All this said, the thing that quite possibly bugged me the most about your responses was your apparent assertion of the superiority of "natural" relationships.
In my previous post, I said that's just the kind of relationships (or friendships) I think one in most cases, in the long run, would be better off in, ending my opinion with "but that's just me." Here, lemme quote it:
I don't "generally dislike that kind of relationship" or am "discouraging it, in favor of a tupper relationship"; I'd prefer you acquire a friendship with a female gradually through common interests, slowly building up trust, but that's just me.


You know what? Relationships like these suck, more often than not. They may seem nice at first, but that's all they ever really are. They are just seemingly a relationship.
I once had a romantic relationship like this myself, actually. Due to odd circumstance, a stranger and I ended up in one place together for awhile, with each other as the only consistent other people there. So, we talked, a little. Small talk, talk about our life stories, talk about the other people coming through this place. After awhile, we got used to talking to each other, so even when we were no longer bound by circumstance to this place, we went to there often to talk to each other. the friendship continued like this, we just slowly became more used to one another being around, and finally when it came to the point of dependance of one another's presence, we decided to call it romantic. Of course, being called romantic the language and actions changed to be more romantic, but still, we didn't actually know all that much about each other.In the end, we both looked back on the relationship and realized that actually, we didn't like each other at all, we had just become used to each other being there, despite not really knowing who the other person was.

So what's the point of all that? The point is, there is nothing inherently special about a relationship growing "naturally", in fact usually relationships like that turn out to be founded on nothing.
I find it unfortunate that your views on such relationships have been so painted by your past experiences, going as far as to generalise them to an extent, from what I can tell. Fortunately, not all slow-building relationships end up like the one you had there.

It is probably much more healthy for a relationship to be actively seeking the other person out, because it means a few things. Like, that you are willing to put in effort to be near this person, or that they are not just some random stranger that you don't mind being around, but someone who seems to you to be very distinctly likeable.
Again, we see this differently, because, like I've suggested several times, it can just as well be a forced and misjudged endeavour one committed to based on largely assumptious thoughts that could very well turn out to be wrong, whereas with a slow-building relation, you optimally get to know the person better and better through gradually built-up trust. Each person to their own preference. I'm just stating my opinion.

Heck, a tulpa represents this in probably the best way possible, you actively seek out its creation and work hard to create it, and you seem to have a pretty high opinion of tulpa relationships.
I disagree that a tupper "represents this in probably the best way possible". A tupper relationship is almost entirely subjective. Some people define the tupper's personality and representation, some don't, and others do a mix. A tupper's existance is dependent on your brain. In the case of defining the tupper, you're deciding what you want, which is not how real life works; you can't wish for the pretty girl of your dreams and "seek her out", for she wouldn't even exist. I don't think comparing something created in your mind to someone you may or may not even know much about, who has a life of their own, is fair at all.

Alright but did you actually just pat yourself on the back for being an asshole? Did you really just excuse your obnoxious behavior as a test to see what people you could deem mature enough? Did you continue to actually seem regretful for being less of an obnoxious ass?
I didn't intend to "pat myself on the back for being an asshole", even though it appears that you see it this way. Reason or excuse, you choose. I don't think it's an excuse; I just explained to you the approach I've made to several, though not all, people in the community. Like I explained about the concept of judging "maturity" earlier in this post, some reacted differently. Some appreciative, some apathetically, some something else. Don't get me wrong, I don't provide people with my assistance just to get reactions. My reasons for posting vary, of course, but back in the day, I'd now and then intentionally go overboard with my posts pretty much only being centered on my method and/or tones, just to spite those that had already seen them multiple times, even though the one person I'd be replying to typically never had heard of my method or tones prior to me mentioning them. All for cheap kicks and laughs at my fellow senior members, I suppose. Oldfag humour, isn't it? Ah, I dunno.

And I'm not "regretful for being less of an obnoxious ass".



I think this may be one of the longest tl;drs I've written in a while. All this just to defend myself from being called things like an "obnoxious ass" or "dickcocker", even despite that I'm not the one swearing left and right.

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 04:39:34 PM »
You don't gotta be the one swearing to be really irritating, and "come accross as rude".

I think the main thing that's getting me here, is how you've been ending your points in things like, "but if you see it that way, then so be it", and generally using that as a crutch in other areas of your points. (Foreseeing my use of the word crutch to be an opinion, guys)

I can respect the fuck out of your opinions, and WOULD, if you were the kinda guy that, instead of seeming like everything anyone said doesn't remotely affect you, because you view everything as subjectivity, and opinion, on the mind of the speaker. If you would maybe.. "Oh, well I don't personally think I'm a dick, but I'll take what you said into consideration, and try to SEEM like less of a condescending dickcocker (sorry, just love the word. So powerful.)"

Like when Sands posted what he did a while back, I didn't try and thoroughly destroy what he was trying to say, or force why I thought he was wrong, or anything. He said something about how the girl was just a guy with another hole. Not exactly the whole picture, but yeah. I said, "I suppose", and mentioned how I knew of plenty of men prettier that most girls. So yeah, I figured it was completely viable. Only thing for me is that, while I don't generally care for anything but personality on say, a friend, I've always considered any possible future I'd have with another person, to be with a chick. Just preference. I like the way they sound..  So easy on the ears.. And where a guy could have that voice, and even a similar body structure, it just might not feel the same, and as well as that, we actually don't have gay people like that in Arkansas. Or at least of what I've seen. So a girl would be ideal for me, and I do respect what Sands said.

But you probably won't, whatever. I'm not really new to the Internet. I don't generally take rudeness, I don't take seemingly condescending people, seriously, because they're: A, just trolling, or: B, not trying to come accross that way, and will say, "oh, sorry man, should have worded that differently haha". Or C, in which case they're just very angry people, and/or justified in everything they're saying.

But it really doesn't seem like you're any of those. If they're all opinions, then justifiability shouldn't even be in the dictionary for you. All just a matter of perspective, provide what you can to back it up, it's still just an opinion, and as such, doesn't have to be considered. Which it doesn't seem you do. You analyze, not consider.

Your opinion is respected. I don't know how it seems, but I know anything regarding this gal IS a long shot. I think I have as much a chance as most, though, and would like to: approach her is step one. Ask about whatever game I'm buying would be step two. Get her name is step three. Then acquaintances, and friends possibly next time I visit. Just about as gradually work my way up as I can, not having known her for ages beforehand.

What isn't respected is how, where I suppose in you saying chances are low, the present chance of success is still implied, you haven't so much as suggested that it's still possible. "It's not likely, but whatever, still possible". Cause imean, it is. Fuck, I've been talking to my brother's girlfriend about it for an hour or two now, and from what I'm getting, it's a perfectly reasonable situation, that can go either way.

Even if it's probably one of those half and half things, even just befriending her is still a win. Maybe I speak and she thinks I'm easy to talk to, maybe I approach her and I look a bit too weird for her, maybe she's one of those people, where as soon as she's on a topic she likes, it seems like she's just in a trance of talking, and we make friends. About anything can happen, good or bad, but it doesn't seem like you think that's possible. Just come across as a really negative person.

Idunno, you clearly care to some degree, about what I decide to think here being based on your "opinions", because you could have easily, two posts in, said something like "Well, I don't agree, but it's your opinion (That word you love so much)"

Or, of course, I'd have gladly stopped arguing a while back, if I'd just gotten some rational feedback. Rational is taking everything said into consideration, not analyzation, and forming a reasonable, and unbiased response. Again, everything you've said so far, but with the other side of the coin on it, would have been a lot easier to accept.

Cause dear hell, I've acknowledged throughout this whole argument that it can go either way. But gosh, it feels like I'm being condemned for being a bit silly towards the first female in a very long while, if not ever that I've thought about relatively excessively. And yes, on unfair terms, with an unfair "talking at"

A conversation, even a debate, takes at least two. You're not talking with me. I'm not even talking with you. You're talking AT me, and I'm talking to myself. You're looking at what I'm saying, and it seems like the first thought that runs through your head is "well now, how do I use this to further my point?"

No need to even consider mine. Don't say you are either. Maybe when it feels like you're talking to me, you can pull off saying that you are, but as is, you're not, and that's not an opinion. That's clear as day in the way you're writing, and the way you're talking at me.

Fuck, maybe you are, you're just not making it apparent. That might help, brah.


Idunno where I was going with this. Idunno if you're not generally like this in real life, or if you actually are the Neckbeard kinda guy who enjoys speaking like you do. I've had the misfortune of knowing so many, and I'm not kidding when I say, yes, the way you speak feels exactly like that of a fedora warrior. The inherent superiority, and assumed (by the writer, mind you) intelligence in what is being written on your part, gives me flashbacks to the days of my modding a pony chat site. You may or may not be a total Neckbeard, or even a bad guy off of the web, but please live on knowing that was one of the first things that popped into my head when I got to know you (generally speaking). Don't say anything about it, just let it simmer, and try and not seem like that. Cause that's definitely not who anyone wants to be, or come across as.

Idunno what else to say. I don't think you're an awful guy, Fede. You've been a big help for me since I had my little Crisis with Miri when I started out here, if only cause you took the time to leave fedeback (haha, that was a joke). Probably done other stuff, but the main thing that's kept me going has been everyone but Megabusta's feedback. But whatever. Idunno. This place is kinda ruined for me, now. Aside from all this, I kinda just don't know what to do anymore. The pink noise stuff isn't doing anything, after a couple days' use, and I'm not sure what else to try. So meh. Unless I can think of something else to do, and post, I'm probably done here.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:25:35 PM by Enny »

Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 11:49:18 PM »
Another tl;dr.

You don't gotta be the one swearing to be really irritating, and "come accross as rude".
Still depends on the reader, though. Subjectivity. I'm not purposefully writing in a way to make you seem irritated at me; I'm trying to remain as neutral in my tone as possible. How you take that, well, that's up to you, obviously.

I think the main thing that's getting me here, is how you've been ending your points in things like, "but if you see it that way, then so be it", and generally using that as a crutch in other areas of your points. (Foreseeing my use of the word crutch to be an opinion, guys)
I do that when I come across a claim or opinion that I don't necessarily think is true and is, from my point of view, possibly based on mere bias.

I can respect the fuck out of your opinions, and WOULD, if you were the kinda guy that, instead of seeming like everything anyone said doesn't remotely affect you, because you view everything as subjectivity, and opinion, on the mind of the speaker. If you would maybe.. "Oh, well I don't personally think I'm a dick, but I'll take what you said into consideration, and try to SEEM like less of a condescending dickcocker (sorry, just love the word. So powerful.)"
Even though it may "seem like everything anyone said doesn't remotely affect me", this is not the case. I am affected by what people write and say to me. I don't like to be called names or see various claims about me that aren't true. How do you think I feel about that? But even so, that doesn't stop me from trying to retain a neutral tone and calmly debase assumptious claims about me before the discussion deteriorates into swearing, name-calling, and assumptions of assumptions. Because if I don't say otherwise, the claims about me made by other people may be seen as true, depending on the reader of course, if I don't take the time to reject them. I don't feel like swearing up a storm or typing in an excessively negative tone just to ram my point in so you and Septimus have even more subjectively-justified reasons to call me a butt. I suppose maybe this neutrality is why you find me to appear as being "analytical", but what do I know.

What isn't respected is how, where I suppose in you saying chances are low, the present chance of success is still implied, you haven't so much as suggested that it's still possible. "It's not likely, but whatever, still possible". Cause imean, it is. Fuck, I've been talking to my brother's girlfriend about it for an hour or two now, and from what I'm getting, it's a perfectly reasonable situation, that can go either way.
Sure it's a possible scenario, but again, I'm just viewing it from my perspective, which frankly favours something else and sees what you've chosen as less likely to succeed. I never deemed it impossible; I just deemed it unlikely, again, from my point of view.

About anything can happen, good or bad, but it doesn't seem like you think that's possible. Just come across as a really negative person.
Again, I think it's possible, since I don't think it's impossible. From what I remember, the only things I've stated on the subject of "possibility" is how plausible it is that it's gonna turn out the way I think you might hope. So once again, even though I may call something "a long shot", that doesn't mean I don't think it's possible.

Idunno, you clearly care to some degree, about what I decide to think here being based on your "opinions", because you could have easily, two posts in, said something like "Well, I don't agree, but it's your opinion (That word you love so much)"
We both could've said that, really.

Or, of course, I'd have gladly stopped arguing a while back, if I'd just gotten some rational feedback. Rational is taking everything said into consideration, not analyzation, and forming a reasonable, and unbiased response. Again, everything you've said so far, but with the other side of the coin on it, would have been a lot easier to accept.
I've done my best in trying to remain as unbiased and reasonable as possible while still presenting my opinion. I think I'm taking enough things into consideration, but we apparently think differently regarding that. I think it's pretty impossible to take "everything" into consideration, because literally "everything" is a very difficult task, so "everything" remains a personally defined word where the one saying "everything" has to be considered can always say to the other guy "Oh, you forgot something, blud. You didn't consider everything." I'm kinda going off-topic again.

Cause dear hell, I've acknowledged throughout this whole argument that it can go either way. But gosh, it feels like I'm being condemned for being a bit silly towards the first female in a very long while, if not ever that I've thought about relatively excessively. And yes, on unfair terms, with an unfair "talking at"
I'm not trying to condemn you. I've presented my opinion, asked you questions regarding this whole crush endeavour, and presented my opinion further from that. Of course, by now, the thread has more derailed into making claims about me, from which I must defend myself by reminding you and Septimus that many of your claims are subjective, not factual.

A conversation, even a debate, takes at least two. You're not talking with me. I'm not even talking with you. You're talking AT me, and I'm talking to myself. You're looking at what I'm saying, and it seems like the first thought that runs through your head is "well now, how do I use this to further my point?"
Whether or not I'm talking with, at, to, together with, to the sides of, above, or below you is subjective. I look at what you're saying, yes, but what goes through my head is not what you seem, but rather this: "Well now, what claims is Enny/Septimus now making about me that aren't true? What things about me are they stating as fact when they are, in fact, subjective? How can I possibly point out to them that their observations about me are from their points of view and not set in stone? How can I explain that I was merely presenting my opinion on the crush endeavour to begin with and there didn't have to be such a big fuss over me having an opinion about it that defies theirs? How can I appropriately phrase that, with a reasonable level of control of their emotions, they could've quietly just ignored it if they knew they'd be so upset over it?"

No need to even consider mine. Don't say you are either. Maybe when it feels like you're talking to me, you can pull off saying that you are, but as is, you're not, and that's not an opinion. That's clear as day in the way you're writing, and the way you're talking at me.

Fuck, maybe you are, you're just not making it apparent. That might help, brah.
Despite what seems "clear as day" to you, in the same way, things can seem "clear as day" differently to me and anyone else. You know what that means. Subjectivity. So, it is an opinion, or at the very least an observation. But I don't think whether or not I'm talking "at" or "to" you is the big issue here.

the main thing that's kept me going has been everyone but Megabusta's feedback.


This place is kinda ruined for me, now. Aside from all this, I kinda just don't know what to do anymore. The pink noise stuff isn't doing anything, after a couple days' use, and I'm not sure what else to try. So meh. Unless I can think of something else to do, and post, I'm probably done here.
Did you try to do the exercise I described in my guide while listening to the pink noise? I'm hoping you didn't just listen and waited for the consonants to appear out of nowhere. In most cases, you have to manually create them, although that may or may not go against your idealogy regarding the whole parroting thing. Try to focus on creating very long consonant sounds like "FFFFFFFFFF" or "SSSSSSSSSSSSS". A trick I remember doing was pretending that I was making those sounds with my mouth without actually saying them. I'm betting that was just symbolic and helped my mind further the idea that it wasn't that difficult to actually create the mismatch-hallucinated consonants, but still, maybe you should try it, too.

But then again, even though you know this, you should remember that I'm describing this consonant-creation-with-pink-noise technique in a guide that revolves around parroting. The idea is that one does this voice practice so often that it becomes easier and easier and eventually just automatic, you know. Then you got a voice. Bam.

Enny

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Re: Relationships and Behavior
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 08:32:16 AM »
Idunno if you're just restating yourself cause I'm being redundant, or you're unintentionally being redundant, or if I'm just not getting what it is you're saying or the other way around, but.. It's feeling redundant. I don't have much to say in this one. Simply put, I posted, you guys responded, I acknowledged, saying anything was possible, not untrue, and even though that in itself shouldn't have spurred up anything, cause ya know, doesn't inherently contridict anything about what you said, and you.. For some reason still had to get your point across, not sure why, we probably had another bout, then I distinctly remember saying I wanted to get back on track with this PR diary thing. Not sure that I needed to include a, "Okay, you most certainly don't have to give me any more opinions at this point, let me get back to work", but I'll go on and say that now.

Okay, you most certainly don't have to give me any more opinions at this point, let me get back to work.

Hell, I probably challenged you when I shouldn't have, lemme go read back on it.